Google
English-Test.net
Find penpals and make new friends today!
 
to fix in place; to link firmly together; to be held in place
accomplish
lock
scale
introduce
TOEIC test: Word games: Free Online Nouns Adverbs Verbs Game Answer
 
Username
Password
 Remember me? 
Search   FAQ   Memberlist   Profile   Private messages   Register   Log in 

"keep silence" vs "keep silent"


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
ESL/EFL Worksheets and Handouts for Students Printable, photocopiable, clearly structured
Designed for teachers and individual learners
For use in a classroom, at home, on your PC
ESL Forums | English Vocabulary, Grammar and Idioms
"that" (The winter of New York is much severer than that of Tokyo.) | "will" in conditional type 1
Listening exercises
Message
Author
"keep silence" vs "keep silent" #16 (permalink) Mon May 12, 2008 12:35 pm   "keep silence" vs "keep silent"
 

Molly wrote:
Quote:
To me, it doesn't really matter whether he called in sick or he called in ill. What matters is he called in even though he was sick/ill.


But was he? Wink

You don't get it, Molly Wink

He called in, in other words, he dropped in at the office, he showed up, even though he was sick. What a devotee!
Lost_Soul
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 1861
Location: South Park, Colorado, USA

"keep silence" vs "keep silent" #17 (permalink) Mon May 12, 2008 13:53 pm   "keep silence" vs "keep silent"
 

Or irresponsible. He could've infected the whole team. Mad
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017

In this story you'll learn how to use the English articlesEnglish grammar exercises — improve your English knowledge and vocabulary skillsAre you a native speaker of English? Then you should read this!Read these English anecdotes and maybe smile today? Subscribe to free email English course
"keep silence" vs "keep silent" #18 (permalink) Mon May 12, 2008 14:19 pm   "keep silence" vs "keep silent"
 

Oh, now it makes more sense ! I never believed in people's responsibility Smile
Lost_Soul
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 1861
Location: South Park, Colorado, USA

"keep silence" vs "keep silent" #19 (permalink) Tue May 13, 2008 4:22 am   "keep silence" vs "keep silent"
 

By the way, Molly, did you know that a Google search for "looking forward to see" can produce over a million results? To me, the use of 'see' is not only wrong but also extremely unnatural in that phrase. Wink
What do Google results actually mean?
Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
Location: USA

"keep silence" vs "keep silent" #20 (permalink) Tue May 13, 2008 6:47 am   "keep silence" vs "keep silent"
 

Lesson? Don't trust Google if you want native-speaker results. Check all results. Consult many sources, including native-speakers that may be around you at the time, and then decide. In looking at "keep silence" and "keep silent", I've checked Google, the BNC, the BYU Corpus of American English, native-speakers here, my English husband, the Bible, law books, and a few major newspapers.

Now, do you think "keep silence" is wrong, incorrect English? If so, which sources have you checked?

And "looking forward to see" is not always incorrect. Sometimes, there's an ellipted "in order to".

"At the next meeting, we'll be looking forward to see how we can change things."

"You must look forward to see what the consequence of our actions will be."
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017

"keep silence" vs "keep silent" #21 (permalink) Tue May 13, 2008 8:56 am   "keep silence" vs "keep silent"
 

I heard 'keep silent' to be used in a number of contexts. Teachers, when explaining the lesson, often address their disobedient students to be silent. At the same time I second Alex's assumption that 'keep silence' can be a common mistake among the non-native speakers.
Pamela
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1239
Location: Rf

"keep silence" vs "keep silent" #22 (permalink) Tue May 13, 2008 9:03 am   "keep silence" vs "keep silent"
 

Quote:
At the same time I second Alex's assumption that 'keep silence' can be a common mistake among the non-native speakers.


And can also be perfectly correct native English.
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017

"keep silence" vs "keep silent" #23 (permalink) Tue May 13, 2008 17:22 pm   "keep silence" vs "keep silent"
 

And that brings us back to square one. Laughing

I think it unlikely that you will hear the collocation 'keep silence' used very often. I agree with Alan that 'maintain silence' would be a far more likely collocation.
.
Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
Location: USA

"keep silence" vs "keep silent" #24 (permalink) Tue May 13, 2008 19:42 pm   "keep silence" vs "keep silent"
 

Yankee wrote:
And that brings us back to square one. Laughing

I think it unlikely that you will hear the collocation 'keep silence' used very often. .


Which leaves students thinking "but where and when can it be used? Half-answers are often not very helpful in the ESL world, Amy.

Quote:
I agree with Alan that 'maintain silence' would be a far more likely collocation.


Is that an example of the shakiness of native-speaker intuition?

The BNC:

maintain silence 4
keep silence 4

The American Corpus:

maintain silence 8
keep silence 14

Google:

32,500 English pages for "maintain silence
282,000 English pages for "keep silence".
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017

"keep silence" vs "keep silent" #25 (permalink) Tue May 13, 2008 21:00 pm   "keep silence" vs "keep silent"
 

"Keep silent" is the correct form.

I've not run across "keep silence" before... at least not while listening to, or reading, a native speaker.

now.... one could maintain silence.

but "keep silence" is not common.

We either maintain silence or we keep silent.
_________________
Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.
Prezbucky
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2528
Location: Nashville, TN (USA)

"keep silence" vs "keep silent" #26 (permalink) Tue May 13, 2008 21:48 pm   "keep silence" vs "keep silent"
 

Quote:
I've not run across "keep silence" before... at least not while listening to, or reading, a native speaker.


Please, read the quote below and ask youself if your knowledege of the language is incomplete. If it is, that would put you in a group of millions of native-speakers and would be a natural situation. If, on the other hand, you think that your knowledge is complete, that you have come across every possible utterance there is to come across, that would make you a very special individual:

"But research in sociolinguistics has highlighted the variability of the competences of different native speakers belonging to different social groupings and even the dialectal varaibility of a single speaker's language. As soon as the non-uniformity of the language is accepted as normal, it is evident that the native speakers' knowledge of their language, as a social or cultural phenomenon, is incomplete. "

First you say that "keep silent" is the correct form then you say "keep silence" is not common. Does that mean that you admit that "keep silence" is also a correct form?
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017

"keep silence" vs "keep silent" #27 (permalink) Tue May 13, 2008 22:04 pm   "keep silence" vs "keep silent"
 

Molly, are you trying to pick fights with native speakers?

If you want to know my qualifications, they are these:

- BA-Journalism, University of Wisconsin
- MBA, Belmont University
- Copy editor, Daily Cardinal (UW student newspaper -- worked there during my years at UW)
- A lifetime of speaking, hearing and reading English every day.

That is not to say that education is everything... though we wrote an awful lot in journalism classes. The MBA program was also full of writing.

I will say it again: "keep silence" is not common.
_________________
Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.
Prezbucky
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2528
Location: Nashville, TN (USA)

"keep silence" vs "keep silent" #28 (permalink) Tue May 13, 2008 22:10 pm   "keep silence" vs "keep silent"
 

"Maintain silence" is used in lieu of "keep silence".

The generally accepted forms are:

- Keep silent
- Maintain silence

(I would imagine one would hear "maintain silence" a lot in the military.... sort of like "maintain discipline".
_________________
Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.
Prezbucky
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2528
Location: Nashville, TN (USA)

"keep silence" vs "keep silent" #29 (permalink) Tue May 13, 2008 22:13 pm   "keep silence" vs "keep silent"
 

Amy, re: "looking forward to see"

Google searches, IMO, are generally useless in determining correct usage.

If a million people are wrong but only four are right... which example should we follow?
_________________
Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.
Prezbucky
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2528
Location: Nashville, TN (USA)

"keep silence" vs "keep silent" #30 (permalink) Tue May 13, 2008 22:13 pm   "keep silence" vs "keep silent"
 

I will say it again: "keep silence" is not common.

That, I understood, but "not common" does not mean incorrect. How can "keep silent" be correct, but "keep silence" not.

And , even with your BA in Journalism, you are not familiar with the work of major journalists:

U.S. Lawyers Keep Silence on Listening In

www.nytimes.com/2006/03/18/nyregion/18detain.html

And more..

-----------

So, when you say something such as this:

Quote:
I've not run across "keep silence" before... at least not while listening to, or reading, a native speaker.


How do you want us non-natives to react?

It's not about picking fights, it's about asking native-speakers to be honest. IMO, more of you need to say "well, it may exist and be correct English usage, but I've not come across it, so I suggest you ask another native-speaker for their advice, use a native-speaker corpus, read a lot of native texts, search various text-types, and so on. And please, oh please, don't take my word on usage as sacred."

Could you do that?
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017

Display posts from previous:   
"that" (The winter of New York is much severer than that of Tokyo.) | "will" in conditional type 1
ESL Forums | English Vocabulary, Grammar and Idioms "keep silence" vs "keep silent" All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3
Latest topics on ESL EFL Forums
usage of "deny"share together?at the latestvocabulary words: live, alive, lifeusage of the verb 'look'usage of "make"Forming conditionalsfocus in onPrepositions in or onUsage of "to help and help"When do we use proposition "THE"?Can I say "my listening skills"?How can this kind of school be called?"keep silence" vs "keep silent", page 3"keep silence" vs "keep silent"Totally spies?Addressing (Good morning, Miss!)be at someone's desk?Do you guys ever say 'Have I really got to go?'No "etc" or "so on" in formal writing?"keep silence" vs "keep silent"

Discover English-test.net
The salary will be commensurate with the dutiesUse of "Would" and "Could""Arrange" vs "Arrange for"how can I find out who is online here in the forum?PCAT verbal word list: Vocabulary Sentences: Noun Adjective TestsPCAT prep test: Word games free: Online Noun Adjective GameDefine vitamin E, cranium, abnormality, bleeding disorder, pinocytosis, fermium, pellagraStudy Swiss German Conversation: Pimsleur approachEnglish dictionaries: Synonyms for mistake and blunder

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Subscribe to FREE email English course
First name E-mail