dual school system vs. dual education system

[Torsten]

Hi,

What are your associations with the term 'dual school system'? It just occurred to me that in the United States it is often used to refer to the period of segregation. In Germany, we have a so called 'dual education system' which combines apprenticeships in a company and vocational education at a vocational school in one course.

I can imagine that both expressions might easily be confused by Germans since they look very similar but describe two rather different things.

What do you think?
Thanks,
Torsten
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[Jamie (K)]

I don't think I've ever heard the segregated school systems of the Jim Crow south referred to as "dual school systems". They are called "segregated school systems" or "separate-but-equal school systems". That second term is understood as sarcasm, even in a serious report, because everyone knows that those systems were separate, but definitely not equal. (There were exceptions, though. Two older women from Alabama told me their high school was "newer and better" than the white kids' school, because their older worse school had been condemned and torn down.)

What Germany has is a "two-track" school system or a "dual-track" school system.

[Yankee]

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I don't think that the expression "dual school system" would be a particularly good translation of the German expression you have in mind, Torsten.

If someone were to say "dual school system" to me (without any context), I would simply understand that they were referring to some sort of school system involving two schools. The broader context would have to fill in the details of what exactly was meant.
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Amy
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ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English

[AngieD]

Well,

Dual.... just to add it to the mix... I heard it being referred to here as private vs public/government funded. That is, having both systems in play at the same time.

Although,... if in truth,... you could consider that either dual school system or dual education system, I do not know.

But I guess if you had a school system divided by gender... separate schools for males and females(or divided by color... or what have you) you could call that dual school system? Where us, if actual material being taught would be different depending on the gender of the student then we would call it... dual educational system.... ???

Your thoughts?

[Torsten]

So, what does 'dual school system' mean in the following sentence: In 1970, seven states—Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, and South Carolina—continued to enforce the dual school system. Or what about this headline:

"Judge: Dual school system unfair"

Europeans don't call their system 'dual school system', they call it dual education system.
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[Jamie (K)]

Torsten, this is not the usual American way of describing that situation. I think the word "dual" was used in order to avoid using the word "segregated" too many times.

[Torsten]

Hi Jamie,

Why do you think John Grisham started chapter 21 of his book "The Last Juror" with this sentence: "In a sweeping ruling that left no room for doubt or delay, the
Court ordered the immediate termination of the dual school system"? I mean, why would he use an expression that is unusual in American English?
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[Yankee]

Torsten, John Grisham was a lawyer (from the South) before he turned into a writer. I presume he is familiar court rulings and the wording used in them. I would also venture a guess that the expression "dual school system" might seem more appealing to a Southerner in particular since it carries less stigma (i.e. sounds more neutral) than, for example, "segregated schools".
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_________________
Amy
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ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English

[Molly]

Here are a few more US-based examples, Torsten:

"Moynihan began by discussing the problems that the Administration faced as it took office two years ago. He described what had been done-the diminishing war, governmental reform, " racial rhetoric calmed, the great symbol of racial subjugation-the dual school system of the South-quietly and finally dismantled."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,942387,00.html

Fund Attorney Jack Greenberg argued in his brief that such an edict was necessary " so that protracted litigation loses its attractiveness as a tactic for delaying desegregation. " By contrast, Leonard urged the Justices to affirm a lower-court order that gives the school boards until Dec. 1 to submit new desegregation plans-but sets no deadline for implementation. " Disestablishment of a dual school system is often a somewhat complicated process, " said Leonard.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,839124,00.html

efforts in his home town of Phoenix, Ariz., to keep Negroes legally barred from some public places. His cautious reply: " With respect to the public-accommodations ordinance, I think my views have changed. " He was adamant on busing, stating that the practice " for the purpose of achieving a racial balance where you do not have a dual school system is not desirable. "

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,905529,00.html

[Yankee]

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Gosh, I didn't know you were from the US, Molly! Imagine that! What a coincidence!
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Amy
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ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English

[Torsten]

Amy, John Grisham writes his books for a broad audience, not just for lawyers from the South. Before any of his books are published I guess a team of proofreaders and editors read his texts to make sure the average American understands them. I think it is difficult to become a bestselling author when you use expressions that don't make sense or are ambiguous. As far as I know John Grisham's books are bought and read by Americans throughout the country as well as people from abroad. You can even buy ESL versions of his books that are written for learners of different levels.
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[Molly]

[Molly]

[Yankee]

Hi Torsten

I offered you my opinion. I did not say that the expression cannot be used. I also did not say the expression is not used. However, I did say that without any context (i.e. as an isolated group of words), the expression itself is not one that will automatically be understood to mean 'racially segregated school system' -- instead it will be the context that clarifies what the expression is intended to mean.

Please take the time to read what I've actually written. Thanks.
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_________________
Amy
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ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English

[Molly]