|
|
Fri May 16, 2008 7:57 am Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
|
|
| Quote: | | "Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it ?" |
It's not standard English, but it might be heard in certain parts of youthful Britain.
| Quote: | Should you not say :
"There is a coffee machine in this room, isn't it ?" |
Again, not standard.
Try:"There is a coffee machine in this room, isn't there? |
|
Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
|
|
|
Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8265 Location: USA
|
 |
Fri May 16, 2008 14:35 pm Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
|
|
| Quote: | | Was that an effort to stave off any comment from 'Grandpa Alan', Molly? And are you sure you weren't thinking of "innit"? |
"Innit" is the weak form.  |
|
Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
|
 |
Sat May 17, 2008 5:05 am Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
|
|
Can you be more precise? Which parts of youthful Britain use isn't it and/or innit this way? . |
|
Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8265 Location: USA
|
 |
Sat May 17, 2008 10:23 am Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
|
|
The less prescriptive parts. Really and originally, for innit, in the chav/townie/pikey parts, even though now, it's spreading beyond those borders. In such parts "isn't it" can be heard as either a kind of hypercorrection or as a dig a the prescriptivist. |
|
Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
|
 |
Sun May 18, 2008 1:43 am Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
|
|
1. ??Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it?
I wouldn't expect to hear "isn't it" (or "innit") after a question with that form, in "youthful" or any other kind of BrE.
The tag could follow a question in the form of a statement, e.g.
2. This is the room with the coffee machine, isn't it?
Or a plain statement, for emphasis, e.g.
3. "The milk's gone off again." "Well, it's the heat, isn't it."
________________________
| Molly wrote: | Really and originally, for innit, in the chav/townie/pikey parts, even though now, it's spreading beyond those borders. In such parts "isn't it" can be heard as either a kind of hypercorrection or as a dig a the prescriptivist.
|
When you say "chav/townie/pikey parts", which areas do you have in mind?
MrP |
|
MrPedantic I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 1303 Location: Southern England
|
 |
Sun May 18, 2008 4:42 am Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
|
|
| Molly wrote: | | Really and originally, for innit, in the chav/townie/pikey parts, even though now, it's spreading beyond those borders. | How do you know that?
| Molly wrote: | | In such parts "isn't it" can be heard as either a kind of hypercorrection | Presumably, "chav/townie/pikey" are words used to describe certain types of youthful Brits. Do "chav/townie/pikey" people use this hypercorrection often? How many times per mill?
| Molly wrote: | | or as a dig a the prescriptivist. | How many (per mill.) make this hypercorrection for this reason? How did you come by this knowledge? Native speaker intuition? . |
|
Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8265 Location: USA
|
 |
Sun May 18, 2008 13:54 pm Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
|
|
| Quote: | | I wouldn't expect to hear "isn't it" (or "innit") after a question with that form, in "youthful" or any other kind of BrE. |
You can't be everywhere all the time, now can you?
| Quote: | | The tag could follow a question in the form of a statement, e.g. |
I think, from recent posts, most of us know that, Mr P.
| Quote: | | When you say "chav/townie/pikey parts", which areas do you have in mind? |
Do Pikey's have an area? |
|
Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
|
 |
Sun May 18, 2008 13:57 pm Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
|
|
| Quote: | | How do you know that? |
From living in Britain and having young people as patients.
| Quote: | | Do "chav/townie/pikey" people use this hypercorrection often? How many times per mill? |
You'd have to check out the chav/townie/pikey corpora, if they exist. |
|
Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
|
 |
Sun May 18, 2008 16:40 pm Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
|
|
| Molly wrote: | | Quote: | | When you say "chav/townie/pikey parts", which areas do you have in mind? |
Do Pikey's have an area?
|
That was the point of my question. You seem to think they do.
| Molly wrote: | | Quote: | | How do you know that? |
From living in Britain and having young people as patients.
|
Actually, it seems to have been taken from the third (and slightly inaccurate) entry for "innit" on the Urban Dictionary website:
| Urban Dictionary wrote: | Derives from the chav/townie/pikey sub-culture,
|
Cf.
| Molly wrote: | Really and originally, for innit, in the chav/townie/pikey parts
|
MrP |
|
MrPedantic I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 1303 Location: Southern England
|
 |
Sun May 18, 2008 20:16 pm Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
|
|
Do Pikey's have an area? That was the point of my question. You seem to think they do.
| Quote: | | Is "parts of youthful Britain" the same as "areas of youthful Britain" in your mind? |
Pikey youth are a part of the group of people that one could call youthful Britain. OK?
| Quote: | | Actually, it seems to have been taken from the third (and slightly inaccurate) entry for "innit" on the Urban Dictionary website: |
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
Again with your garden-path approach to stating your viewpoint. If you haven't heard the tag used as above, is it a case of your limited, indirect experience with British youth-culture, or is it that you want to state that the tag used as above does not exist in British English? Make up your mind, but do it with cojones, please. |
|
Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
|
 |
Sun May 18, 2008 23:19 pm Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
|
|
| Molly wrote: | Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
|
The item on the webpage is dated Dec. 2004; so it would seem to have priority.
| Molly wrote: | Again with your garden-path approach to stating your viewpoint. If you haven't heard the tag used as above, is it a case of your limited, indirect experience with British youth-culture, or is it that you want to state that the tag used as above does not exist in British English? Make up your mind, but do it with cojones, please.
|
As I said before, I would not expect to hear this structure:
1. Is there an X, isn't it?
But I would expect to hear "isn't it"/"innit" after a statement, or a question in the form of a statement.
Have a pleasant evening, old chap.
MrP |
|
MrPedantic I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 1303 Location: Southern England
|
 |
Mon May 19, 2008 8:06 am Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
|
|
| Quote: | As I said before, I would not expect to hear this structure:
1. Is there an X, isn't it? |
I'm sure there are many things about English usage that you would find quite surprising .
| Quote: | | Have a pleasant evening, old chap. |
Could you answer one thing for me? When a person has, many times, asked you not to call him/her a certain name, why would you want to continue doing so? |
|
Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
|
 |
|
| What does "let alone film one" mean? | Expression: "Can you go as far in the ocean..." |