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#2 (permalink) Fri May 16, 2008 6:57 am Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
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| "Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it ?" |
It's not standard English, but it might be heard in certain parts of youthful Britain.
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Should you not say :
"There is a coffee machine in this room, isn't it ?" |
Again, not standard.
Try:"There is a coffee machine in this room, isn't there? |
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Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8265 Location: USA
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#4 (permalink) Fri May 16, 2008 13:35 pm Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
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| Was that an effort to stave off any comment from 'Grandpa Alan', Molly? And are you sure you weren't thinking of "innit"? |
"Innit" is the weak form.  |
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Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
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#5 (permalink) Sat May 17, 2008 4:05 am Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
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Can you be more precise? Which parts of youthful Britain use isn't it and/or innit this way? . |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8265 Location: USA
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#6 (permalink) Sat May 17, 2008 9:23 am Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
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The less prescriptive parts. Really and originally, for innit, in the chav/townie/pikey parts, even though now, it's spreading beyond those borders. In such parts "isn't it" can be heard as either a kind of hypercorrection or as a dig a the prescriptivist. |
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Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
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#7 (permalink) Sun May 18, 2008 0:43 am Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
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1. ??Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it?
I wouldn't expect to hear "isn't it" (or "innit") after a question with that form, in "youthful" or any other kind of BrE.
The tag could follow a question in the form of a statement, e.g.
2. This is the room with the coffee machine, isn't it?
Or a plain statement, for emphasis, e.g.
3. "The milk's gone off again." "Well, it's the heat, isn't it."
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| Molly wrote: |
Really and originally, for innit, in the chav/townie/pikey parts, even though now, it's spreading beyond those borders. In such parts "isn't it" can be heard as either a kind of hypercorrection or as a dig a the prescriptivist.
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When you say "chav/townie/pikey parts", which areas do you have in mind?
MrP |
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MrPedantic I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 1319 Location: Southern England
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#8 (permalink) Sun May 18, 2008 3:42 am Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
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| Molly wrote: |
| Really and originally, for innit, in the chav/townie/pikey parts, even though now, it's spreading beyond those borders. |
How do you know that?
| Molly wrote: |
| In such parts "isn't it" can be heard as either a kind of hypercorrection |
Presumably, "chav/townie/pikey" are words used to describe certain types of youthful Brits. Do "chav/townie/pikey" people use this hypercorrection often? How many times per mill?
| Molly wrote: |
| or as a dig a the prescriptivist. |
How many (per mill.) make this hypercorrection for this reason? How did you come by this knowledge? Native speaker intuition? . |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8265 Location: USA
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#9 (permalink) Sun May 18, 2008 12:54 pm Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
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| I wouldn't expect to hear "isn't it" (or "innit") after a question with that form, in "youthful" or any other kind of BrE. |
You can't be everywhere all the time, now can you?
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| The tag could follow a question in the form of a statement, e.g. |
I think, from recent posts, most of us know that, Mr P.
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| When you say "chav/townie/pikey parts", which areas do you have in mind? |
Do Pikey's have an area? |
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Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
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#10 (permalink) Sun May 18, 2008 12:57 pm Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
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| How do you know that? |
From living in Britain and having young people as patients.
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| Do "chav/townie/pikey" people use this hypercorrection often? How many times per mill? |
You'd have to check out the chav/townie/pikey corpora, if they exist. |
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Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
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#11 (permalink) Sun May 18, 2008 15:40 pm Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
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| Molly wrote: |
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| When you say "chav/townie/pikey parts", which areas do you have in mind? |
Do Pikey's have an area?
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That was the point of my question. You seem to think they do.
| Molly wrote: |
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| How do you know that? |
From living in Britain and having young people as patients.
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Actually, it seems to have been taken from the third (and slightly inaccurate) entry for "innit" on the Urban Dictionary website:
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Derives from the chav/townie/pikey sub-culture,
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Cf.
| Molly wrote: |
Really and originally, for innit, in the chav/townie/pikey parts
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MrP |
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MrPedantic I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 1319 Location: Southern England
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#12 (permalink) Sun May 18, 2008 19:16 pm Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
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Do Pikey's have an area? That was the point of my question. You seem to think they do.
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| Is "parts of youthful Britain" the same as "areas of youthful Britain" in your mind? |
Pikey youth are a part of the group of people that one could call youthful Britain. OK?
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| Actually, it seems to have been taken from the third (and slightly inaccurate) entry for "innit" on the Urban Dictionary website: |
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
Again with your garden-path approach to stating your viewpoint. If you haven't heard the tag used as above, is it a case of your limited, indirect experience with British youth-culture, or is it that you want to state that the tag used as above does not exist in British English? Make up your mind, but do it with cojones, please. |
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Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
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#13 (permalink) Sun May 18, 2008 22:19 pm Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
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| Molly wrote: |
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
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The item on the webpage is dated Dec. 2004; so it would seem to have priority.
| Molly wrote: |
Again with your garden-path approach to stating your viewpoint. If you haven't heard the tag used as above, is it a case of your limited, indirect experience with British youth-culture, or is it that you want to state that the tag used as above does not exist in British English? Make up your mind, but do it with cojones, please.
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As I said before, I would not expect to hear this structure:
1. Is there an X, isn't it?
But I would expect to hear "isn't it"/"innit" after a statement, or a question in the form of a statement.
Have a pleasant evening, old chap.
MrP |
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MrPedantic I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 1319 Location: Southern England
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#14 (permalink) Mon May 19, 2008 7:06 am Sentence: Is there a coffee machine in this room, isn't it? |
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As I said before, I would not expect to hear this structure:
1. Is there an X, isn't it? |
I'm sure there are many things about English usage that you would find quite surprising .
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| Have a pleasant evening, old chap. |
Could you answer one thing for me? When a person has, many times, asked you not to call him/her a certain name, why would you want to continue doing so? |
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Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
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| What does "let alone film one" mean? | Expression: "Can you go as far in the ocean..." |