|
|
 Tue May 20, 2008 0:20 am Usage of 's: Mr Pike is a teacher of Jack/Jack's. |
|
|
A: Who was the teacher of Plato?
B: Well, Socrates was a teacher of Plato, but he also had others. Protagoras was also a teacher of Plato. |
|
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 2880
|
|
| Tue May 20, 2008 0:22 am Usage of 's: Mr Pike is a teacher of Jack/Jack's. |
|
|
| Molly wrote: | What would you choose here and why?
1. Excuse me, I'd like to talk to a teacher of Jack.
2. Excuse me, I'd like to talk to a teacher of Jack's.
|
1. If you use this, your addressee will view you askance.
2. Use this to imply some slight contempt for the teacher. You are about to punch his nose.
For normal usage, change to:
3. "Excuse me, I'd like to talk to one of Jack's teachers" – if the choice of teacher doesn't matter.
4. "Excuse me, I'd like to talk to (Jack's teacher,) Ms Molly" – if the choice of teacher does matter.
MrP |
|
MrPedantic
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 905
Location: Southern England
|
 |
| Tue May 20, 2008 0:24 am Usage of 's: Mr Pike is a teacher of Jack/Jack's. |
|
|
| Quote: | | For normal usage, change to: |
Does your "normal usage" include formal usage? |
|
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 2880
|
|
| Tue May 20, 2008 0:24 am Usage of 's: Mr Pike is a teacher of Jack/Jack's. |
|
|
| Molly wrote: | A: Who was the teacher of Plato?
B: Well, Socrates was a teacher of Plato, but he also had others. Protagoras was also a teacher of Plato. |
You seem not to have noticed something about all your examples.
MrP |
|
MrPedantic
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 905
Location: Southern England
|
|
| Tue May 20, 2008 0:31 am Usage of 's: Mr Pike is a teacher of Jack/Jack's. |
|
|
You might find the need for the 's here:
He was teacher of Shakespeare.
He was teacher of Shakespeare's.
But not here, if you don't like the 's style in such.
He is a teacher of Jack. |
|
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 2880
|
|
| Tue May 20, 2008 0:31 am Usage of 's: Mr Pike is a teacher of Jack/Jack's. |
|
|
| MrPedantic wrote: | You seem not to have noticed something about all your examples.
MrP |
Tell me.
And; Does your "normal usage" include formal usage?
| Quote: | | You seem not to have noticed |
Now how stilted does that sound? |
|
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 2880
|
|
| Tue May 20, 2008 0:47 am Usage of 's: Mr Pike is a teacher of Jack/Jack's. |
|
|
"Charles J. Ogletree Jr., another Harvard law professor and a mentor of Mr. Obama, said,"
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/us/politics/28obama.html
Which would you choose here and why?
The writer was a mentor of younger author Theroux.
The writer was a mentor of younger author Theroux's.
The writer was a mentor of younger author Theroux'. |
|
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 2880
|
|
| Tue May 20, 2008 1:40 am Usage of 's: Mr Pike is a teacher of Jack/Jack's. |
|
|
| Amy wrote: | To me, that particular version sounds rather like you're attempting to say that "Jack" is the subject matter taught by Mr. Pike:
"Mr. Pike is a teacher of Shakespeare." |
Hi Nessie
I agree with MrP that your first sentence would sound unusual. In the post above, I tried to describe a reason why that sentence sounds unusual and awkward to me.
.
_________________
Amy
.
ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English |
|
Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 7464
Location: Northeast US
|
|
| Tue May 20, 2008 3:38 am Usage of 's: Mr Pike is a teacher of Jack/Jack's. |
|
|
| confusing!!! |
|
vaok
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 119
|
|
| Tue May 20, 2008 7:17 am Usage of 's: Mr Pike is a teacher of Jack/Jack's. |
|
|
Consider these examples:
1. Socrates was the teacher of Plato.
2. Mr Pike is Jack's teacher.
What is the difference in the use of "teacher"?
MrP |
|
MrPedantic
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 905
Location: Southern England
|
|
| Tue May 20, 2008 7:27 am Usage of 's: Mr Pike is a teacher of Jack/Jack's. |
|
|
| Yankee wrote: | I agree with MrP that your first sentence would sound unusual. In the post above, I tried to describe a reason why that sentence sounds unusual and awkward to me.
. |
Where can one study "Jack"? Has "Jack" been mentioned earlier in the cotext? If so, what was the reference?
All of this reminds me of so many native-speakers who, in trying at all cost to avoid intrasentential ambiguity, deny the use of many native forms. If those native-speakers could get beyond the sentence, could think, create and read intersentially, we'd all be a lot better off. |
|
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 2880
|
|
| Tue May 20, 2008 10:01 am Usage of 's: Mr Pike is a teacher of Jack/Jack's. |
|
|
What is the difference in the use of "teacher"?
You missed the point. If we go by Amy's reading, we can say that the only thing Plato can mean in that sentence is "Socrates was the teacher of the academic subject Plato". |
|
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 2880
|
|
| Tue May 20, 2008 10:07 am Usage of 's: Mr Pike is a teacher of Jack/Jack's. |
|
|
Who in their right mind would say: Fred is the teacher of George? Don't most normal people say; Fred is George's teacher. It's all getting a bit 'pen of my aunt' to me.
Alan
_________________
English as a Second Language
You can read my ESL story Phrasal Verbs/go |
|
Alan
Co-founder
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 7283
Location: UK
|
|
| Tue May 20, 2008 10:18 am Usage of 's: Mr Pike is a teacher of Jack/Jack's. |
|
|
.
Yes, Alan, I agree with you completely.
.
_________________
Amy
.
ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English |
|
Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 7464
Location: Northeast US
|
|
|
| Please check my essay | Describe a famous figure that you admire most |
