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 #17 (permalink) Fri May 23, 2008 10:28 am with or without "the"? |
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| lost_soul wrote: |
I saw this CNN news header: Digital age may bring total recall in future - CNN.com
Do you think it is the case where (magazine) headers are "shortened" by cutting out articles ? Or is it a simple mistake |
Yes. It's definitely a case where the headline is written in telegraphic language, so the article "the" is left out. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #18 (permalink) Fri May 23, 2008 10:36 am with or without "the"? |
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| Molly wrote: |
| As for the latter, you can't get less Chinglish that Tom Stoppard. Maybe Jamie's never heard of Mr Stoppard. |
I don't care much for middle-brow fiction of the type he writes, so my familiarity with him is limited, but I know he was born Tomáš Straussler in Czechoslovakia of parents who spoke a language with no articles. Then he was taken to Singapore, a place where people also have trouble with articles, and was still being raised completely by people who have trouble with articles, until his mother remarried in the 1940s. Much later, he received the now degraded title "Sir", which he shares with such luminaries as Sir Ringo Starr and the very loopy Sir Elton John. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #19 (permalink) Fri May 23, 2008 10:39 am with or without "the"? |
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| Quote: |
| Then he was taken to Singapore, a place where people also have trouble with articles, |
They're not the only ones, even you find trouble in knowing when an article can or cannot be used, right? Do you imagine Alan to be a speaker of Chinglish?
| Quote: |
| Then he was taken to Singapore, a place where people also have trouble with articles, and was still being raised completely by people who have trouble with articles, until his mother remarried in the 1940s. |
Tom was around 4 when he left Singapore. |
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Molly
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| #20 (permalink) Fri May 23, 2008 10:41 am with or without "the"? |
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| Alan wrote: |
| 'In future' often has the sense of 'next time' as in: In view of the delays experienced at airports where security checks take a long time I have decided in future to go by train when I go on holiday. 'In the future' is much more expansive as in: In the future motorists will be buying cars that have much better fuel efficiency than is the case at the moment. |
We don't make this distinction. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #21 (permalink) Fri May 23, 2008 10:56 am with or without "the"? |
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| Molly wrote: |
| If you keep basing all your replies on your own variant, Jamie, we'll never get anywhere. |
Where am I supposed to be getting?
The BYU corpus gives 38 results for "in future ," many of which appear to be uttered by foreigners on American TV shows. Some of the examples appear to have been uttered by people with foreign language interference. It gives 2,649 for "in the future ,".
The BNC gives 462 results for "in the future ," and 251 for "in future ,". It's not clear from all the results that the distinction in meaning between the two that Alan mentioned is made by all of the speakers and writers who uttered the sentences.
I don't call this rip-roaring support for your premise. All the results mean is that sometimes some people leave the definite article out of the expression "in the future", but it doesn't mean it's normal for most speakers.
Nigerian English is irrelevant, by the way, because, like Arabic speakers, many Nigerians have problems with appropriate article usage (especially the indefinite article, but also the definite article) when they speak or write in English. (You're not really from Nigeria anyway, so you wouldn't exactly be the one to be talking about Nigerian English.) |
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Jamie (K)
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| #22 (permalink) Fri May 23, 2008 10:59 am with or without "the"? |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| We don't make this distinction. |
An improvement on:
| Quote: |
| No, Haihao. "Don't do it again in future," is a grammatically incorrect, Chinglish-sounding sentence. It absolutely must be, "Don't do it again in the future." There's no question about it. |
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Molly
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| #23 (permalink) Fri May 23, 2008 11:04 am with or without "the"? |
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| Quote: |
| Where am I supposed to be getting? |
"We" means "ESL students", there.
| Quote: |
| The BNC gives 462 results for "in the future ," and 251 for "in future ,". It's not clear from all the results that the distinction in meaning between the two that Alan mentioned is made by all of the speakers and writers who uttered the sentences. |
Believe us, "in future" is, and has always been, correct in BrE usage. You were wrong in your assessment of the form. |
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Molly
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| #24 (permalink) Fri May 23, 2008 11:12 am with or without "the"? |
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| Molly wrote: |
| Believe us, "in future" is, and has always been, correct in BrE usage. You were wrong in your assessment of the form. |
A. How long does "always" mean? Did they use it in the time of King Alfred? I doubt it.
B. The fact that Americans don't use it is an indication that it's probably a later development that didn't cross the ocean.
C. I was correct in my assessment of the form for the majority of the world's native English speakers, as attested by the results from the corpora. (That is, if you can trust corpora results.) |
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Jamie (K)
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Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| #25 (permalink) Fri May 23, 2008 11:22 am with or without "the"? |
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| Quote: |
| A. How long does "always" mean? Did they use it in the time of King Alfred? I doubt it. |
If they did, you Yanks wouldn't have known about, that's for sure. :lol:
| Quote: |
| B. The fact that Americans don't use it is an indication that it's probably a later development that didn't cross the ocean. |
Is that any reason for a, supposedly, educated, well-traveled/travelled guy such as yourself, not to know of its existence?
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| C. I was correct in my assessment of the form for the majority of the world's native English speakers, as attested by the results from the corpora. |
Not at all, Jamie. Nonsense. Sorry to inform you, but "the majority of the world's native English speakers", whoever they may be, are not the only model for English usage.
Please pay attention: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=in+future&r=66
| Quote: |
| I don't call this rip-roaring support for your premise. All the results mean is that sometimes some people leave the definite article out of the expression "in the future", but it doesn't mean it's normal for most speakers. |
Wake up, Jamie:
in future = from now on
in the future = sometime then
If anything is ellipted from "in future", it's probably a noun.
e.g.
in future <occasions> (such as this one)
in future <events> (such as this one)
etc.
| Quote: |
| (You're not really from Nigeria anyway, so you wouldn't exactly be the one to be talking about Nigerian English.) |
What nonsense you spout. |
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Molly
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Molly
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| #27 (permalink) Fri May 23, 2008 12:34 pm with or without "the"? |
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I associate the expression 'in future' with British English. I wouldn't expect to hear it used in American English except for in telegraphic language (i.e. types of writing which omit words, such as headlines or bullets).
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Yankee
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| #28 (permalink) Fri May 23, 2008 12:35 pm with or without "the"? |
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And finally:
in future (US USUALLY in the future) MAINLY UK
used at the beginning or end of a sentence in which there is a decision about a plan of action or a warning:
Could you be more careful in future?
In future I won't bother asking him out anywhere if he's just going to complain that he's bored!
In future I'm going to check every single piece of work that you do!
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=31894&dict=CALD
You can also check out this search item in the BNC: in future .
Don't forget the space before the full-stop/period.
Nuff said? |
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Molly
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| #29 (permalink) Fri May 23, 2008 13:00 pm with or without "the"? |
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Are you familiar with the word 'overkill'?
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Yankee
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| #30 (permalink) Fri May 23, 2008 13:03 pm with or without "the"? |
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I wouldn't expect to hear it used in American English except for in telegraphic language (i.e. types of writing which omit words, such as headlines or bullets).
One off-topic question if you will permit: Can one omit the "for" or the "in" above?
e.g.
I wouldn't expect to hear it used in American English except in telegraphic language (i.e. types of writing which omit words, such as headlines or bullets).
I wouldn't expect to hear it used in American English except for telegraphic language (i.e. types of writing which omit words, such as headlines or bullets). |
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Molly
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| usage of 'Has' in this sentence | Indirect Speech - 'there was' |
