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 #32 (permalink) Tue May 27, 2008 16:58 pm lack vs lacking |
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| Quote: | | Once again I ask you whether it is your intent to mislead learners of English. |
Maybe you need to take your own advice and open a thread of your own for all your off-topic questions.
| Quote: | | Although your advice is sometimes good, too often it is extremely wide of the mark and lacking in common sense. |
Does that mean that you've come to the end of your ability to explain the use of "the lacking of"? |
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Molly
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| #33 (permalink) Tue May 27, 2008 18:23 pm lack vs lacking |
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Hi
I think this debate is lacking in something, not sure what.
Level headed and common sense responses ; )
You just have to love internet forums for their occasional lack of decency, and diplomacy.
But with a lack of face to face contact, we can all hide behind a keyboard and screen.
Returning to the issue at hand.
Maybe "the lacking of" is a version of English, but not standard.
Is it therefore an error, and if so should it be corrected and by whom?
cheers stew.t. (nice to be back ; 0 )
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Stew.t.
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| #34 (permalink) Tue May 27, 2008 19:13 pm lack vs lacking |
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| Quote: | | Level headed and common sense responses ; ) |
I guess we were all waiting for you to come along, stew.t.
| Quote: | | Maybe "the lacking of" is a version of English, but not standard. |
Really? And how did you reach that conclusion? |
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Molly
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| #35 (permalink) Wed May 28, 2008 7:39 am lack vs lacking |
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| So, native speakers, what's the final verdict on "the lacking of"? Is it idiomatic, standard, good for use in certain text-types/registers, etc? |
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Molly
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| #36 (permalink) Wed May 28, 2008 10:51 am lack vs lacking |
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Hi Molly
I come to that conclusion as the lack of frequency of this usage in spoken English as well as teaching materials.
It has a tendency to be used in academic, theoretical and technical texts, such as B. Venziani commenting on "Fundamental trade unions rights and European Constitution";
"The lacking of this references in an ad hoc provision makes clear that if we want to read all the new ‘constitutional book’ ........."
I can not recall it´s usage in spoken English, however this does not equate to a total lack of usage.
So not really standard, and could be used in academic, political and technical texts.
Not sure this is the final verdict you are looking for, but is my contribution as a native speaker ; )
cheers stew.t.
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Stew.t.
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| #37 (permalink) Wed May 28, 2008 11:09 am lack vs lacking |
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| Quote: | | I come to that conclusion as the lack of frequency of this usage in spoken English as well as teaching materials. |
I see. So what is the meaning of "standard English" for you, stew.t? Does it exclude "academic, political and technical texts."? |
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Molly
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| #38 (permalink) Wed May 28, 2008 13:07 pm lack vs lacking |
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Hi Molly
Standard does not of course exclude "academic, political and technical texts".
As I mentioned before it could be used in these texts, but is also then not necessarily standard usage. You would not find it in "how to write......" texts or courses for that matter.
cheers stew.t.
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Stew.t.
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| #39 (permalink) Wed May 28, 2008 14:10 pm lack vs lacking |
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| Quote: | | As I mentioned before it could be used in these texts, but is also then not necessarily standard usage. |
I still can't see why you find it nonstandard. I find it standard. |
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Molly
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| #40 (permalink) Thu May 29, 2008 0:22 am lack vs lacking |
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| Molly wrote: | | Quote: | | As I mentioned before it could be used in these texts, but is also then not necessarily standard usage. |
I still can't see why you find it nonstandard. I find it standard. |
If your native-speaker intuition tells you X is fine, then say X.
But in this context "the lacking of" is inappropriate:
1. The lacking of notes to the financial statements will not be acceptable.
It is inappropriate because the intended meaning is that the financial statement should not lack notes. But that is not what the sentence says.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #41 (permalink) Thu May 29, 2008 9:09 am lack vs lacking |
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| Quote: | | If your native-speaker intuition tells you X is fine, then say X. |
Including "It would have been more better."?
| Quote: | | But in this context "the lacking of" is inappropriate: |
What if it were:
The lacking of notes for financial statements will not be acceptable. |
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Molly
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| #42 (permalink) Thu May 29, 2008 9:35 am lack vs lacking |
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| MrPedantic wrote: | | Molly wrote: | | Quote: | | As I mentioned before it could be used in these texts, but is also then not necessarily standard usage. |
I still can't see why you find it nonstandard. I find it standard. |
If your native-speaker intuition tells you X is fine, then say X.
But in this context "the lacking of" is inappropriate:
1. The lacking of notes to the financial statements will not be acceptable.
It is inappropriate because the intended meaning is that the financial statement should not lack notes. But that is not what the sentence says.
MrP |
Mr Pedantic,
You miss my point. I do think that "the lacking of notes to the financial statements" is inappropriate, never questioning my native speaker intuition.
I did not refer to this sentence in my post, just the general usage of the expression.
I agree with you on the aforementioned point.
cheers stew.t.
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Stew.t.
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| #43 (permalink) Thu May 29, 2008 23:04 pm lack vs lacking |
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| Molly wrote: | | Quote: | | If your native-speaker intuition tells you X is fine, then say X. |
Including "It would have been more better."?
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If your native-speaker intuition tells you "It would have been more better" is fine, then feel free to use it.
Naturally, if you were an ESL student, it would be a different matter.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #44 (permalink) Thu May 29, 2008 23:08 pm lack vs lacking |
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| Quote: | | Naturally, if you were an ESL student, it would be a different matter. |
How about if you were a native-speaking secondary school student using it in an essay or exam context? Would you advise such a person to "feel free to use it"? |
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Molly
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| #45 (permalink) Thu May 29, 2008 23:10 pm lack vs lacking |
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| stew.t. wrote: | You miss my point. I do think that "the lacking of notes to the financial statements" is inappropriate, never questioning my native speaker intuition.
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Hello Stew.t.,
The formatting was a little misleading – my post was in response to this comment, rather than yours:
| Molls wrote: | I still can't see why you find it nonstandard. I find it standard.
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(I suspect that although Molly claims to find the phrase "standard", he would take care not to use it in his own writings. I'm reminded of Pinker's defence of "between you and I": you would never catch the fellow using the phrase himself.)
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| Sentence correction: I presume that to pursue MBA, experience is not matter. | meaning of "going on seven" |
