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 #47 (permalink) Fri May 30, 2008 8:45 am lack vs lacking |
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| Molly wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Naturally, if you were an ESL student, it would be a different matter. |
How about if you were a native-speaking secondary school student using it in an essay or exam context? Would you advise such a person to "feel free to use it"? |
NO. If I were to teach secondary school students it would be in the UK, you are assessed as a teacher, and why would I teach sth that in secondary education let alone ESL/EFL (non-native or native speakers alike) circles is considered not to be standard?
What is the role of the teacher but to teach some form of standard usage, that is determined by the business field and not "possible usage"?
Exposing students to versions is a different issue.
cheers stew.t.
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Stew.t.
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| #48 (permalink) Fri May 30, 2008 9:26 am lack vs lacking |
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| Quote: |
| What is the role of the teacher but to teach some form of standard usage, that is determined by the business field and not "possible usage"? |
Unfortunately, no other role. |
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Molly
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| #49 (permalink) Fri May 30, 2008 9:39 am lack vs lacking |
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| Teaching language is a wonderful thing.... But I strongly feel at the same time that extremely speaking, language cannot be really taught but only be felt. |
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Haihao
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| #50 (permalink) Fri May 30, 2008 9:50 am lack vs lacking |
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| If we could create a real new area in our brain for a new language, which is always hindered by trying to translate the new into the old, we could master any languages like our mother tongues at any ages as we do in our infancy, I suppose. |
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Haihao
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| #51 (permalink) Fri May 30, 2008 9:57 am lack vs lacking |
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Hi Molly
It is a shame that you have such a negative response to teachers.
But celŽa vie.
I may have been explicit with defining a role of teachers, but the statement holds true amongst other roles.
cheers stew.t.
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Stew.t.
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| #52 (permalink) Fri May 30, 2008 10:01 am lack vs lacking |
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| Haihao wrote: |
| Teaching language is a wonderful thing.... But I strongly feel at the same time that extremely speaking, language cannot be really taught but only be felt. |
This is true that people who have a competence and master a language usually have a feeling for it. Wish I could say the same for German, but sometimes I have problems still with accents. Like a guy last night who lives here but came from Poland.
Listening and exposure to accents/dialects is as important as speaking, we should not ignore this.
Sometimes the feeling for a language can be misleading as well.
cheers stew.t.
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Stew.t.
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| #53 (permalink) Fri May 30, 2008 10:40 am lack vs lacking |
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| Quote: |
| It is a shame that you have such a negative response to teachers. |
I don't, I feel sorry for them. To only be allowed to teach one dialect/sociolect which, to make things worse, is normally only the written form of that dialect/sociolect, must be a little depressing and cramping. Thank goodness for the Ronald Carters, Michael Lewises, etc. in this world. Hope on the horizon? |
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Molly
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| #54 (permalink) Fri May 30, 2008 11:30 am lack vs lacking |
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Hi
Not sure what you imply by this;
| Molly wrote: |
| Quote: |
| It is a shame that you have such a negative response to teachers. |
I don't, I feel sorry for them. To only be allowed to teach one dialect/sociolect which, to make things worse, is normally only the written form of that dialect/sociolect, must be a little depressing and cramping. Thank goodness for the Ronald Carters, Michael Lewises, etc. in this world. Hope on the horizon? |
We teach standards or American/ British English, and as I said make people aware of versions. Teaching is not depressing from what you interpret, maybe for other reasons.
I am not sure how you perceive teaching, but it is very diverse depending on your target group or the market you are in. And teaching English allows you to leap from one field to the next.
It certainly isnŽt cramping if you are a freelancer and have many options to choose from, and above all remain flexible.
As for Ronald Carter, Michael Lewis, not got round to them yet.
However Penny your and Sir Ian Robinson are certainly people who have their fingers on the pulse of where teaching and learning is at.
What kind of hope do you need? Hope to move away from the teachers who here you see as cramped in their style or views?
cheers stew.t.
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Stew.t.
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| #55 (permalink) Fri May 30, 2008 12:00 pm lack vs lacking |
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| Quote: |
| I am not sure how you perceive teaching, but it is very diverse depending on your target group or the market you are in. And teaching English allows you to leap from one field to the next. |
But that isn't the area we were discussing, is it? I responded to this:
| Quote: |
| What is the role of the teacher but to teach some form of standard usage, that is determined by the business field and not "possible usage"? |
| Quote: |
| What kind of hope do you need? Hope to move away from the teachers who here you see as cramped in their style or views? |
To move away from education authorities who have a limited view of what's needed in the world of English usage outside school. |
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Molly
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| #56 (permalink) Sat May 31, 2008 0:07 am lack vs lacking |
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| Molly wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Naturally, if you were an ESL student, it would be a different matter. |
How about if you were a native-speaking secondary school student using it in an essay or exam context? Would you advise such a person to "feel free to use it"? |
You've misunderstood, old chap. I said if your native-speaker intuition tells you "It would have been more better" is fine, then feel free to use it.
But if I were advising students, I would naturally advise them not to use it; nor "the lacking of", for that matter.
All the best,
MrP |
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| #57 (permalink) Sat May 31, 2008 8:49 am lack vs lacking |
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| Mr P-athetic, my Nigerian intuition tells me to ignore your posts from now on. Your pathetic sniping forced my husband to leave one forum, as well you know. You will not drive me from this one. You are now on ignore. |
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| #58 (permalink) Sat May 31, 2008 10:37 am lack vs lacking |
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| I am a little hesitant to put it so straightforward but I feel Molly's comments convincing and flavourous. We don't need to be always so "perfect" with any languages we human beings, who are imperfect, use. Compared with a much richer and wealthier treasure a language can contain, either "more better" or "the lacking of" is nothing but an entertainment of English. We can find tons of non-standard usages in many masterpieces which partly make them masterpieces. Language also needs some adiaphorism.... |
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Haihao
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| #59 (permalink) Sat May 31, 2008 11:23 am lack vs lacking |
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| Molly wrote: |
| Mr P-athetic, my Nigerian intuition tells me to ignore your posts from now on. Your pathetic sniping forced my husband to leave one forum, as well you know. You will not drive me from this one. You are now on ignore. |
What do you consider sniping, Molly?
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| #60 (permalink) Sat May 31, 2008 18:48 pm lack vs lacking |
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| Ralf wrote: |
| What do you consider sniping, Molly? |
What do you consider poking your nose in, Walfie? |
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| Sentence correction: I presume that to pursue MBA, experience is not matter. | meaning of "going on seven" |
