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#62 (permalink) Sun Jun 01, 2008 0:11 am lack vs lacking |
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| Why is Mr P referring to himself in this way "Sublime self-unawareness."? Is he at a turning point? |
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Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
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#63 (permalink) Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:45 am lack vs lacking |
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Hi guys
To return to the discussion, if we have no standards in any subject that is taught/ learned then what do you end up teaching/learning?
Can a structure be built around this premise, and what of students who want a clear well defined guideline for usage?
How would you counter or not an argument like ............. "then what is the right usage?"?
It is all well and good, and I do actually see the beauty of English to be in itīs variety, to say teachers should adopt this approach.
But then realistically how can you transform this into an effective learning process in lessons?
How do you motivate or get a client/student to see this, or any perspective as a teacher?
Modern teachers have to have some approach, even if it is chaos , ), make intuitive decisions in the spur of the moment.
Do we follow an organizations policy, that of modern research?
If we consider standard usage and the correction in regards to errors and versions? Is their an effective method for teaching in regards to uptake (realization and application) and effective use of lesson time?
cheers stew.t. _________________ Please meet Stewart Tunncilff |
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Stew.t. I'm here quite often ;-)

Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 549 Location: Leipzig, Germany
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#64 (permalink) Sun Jun 01, 2008 13:03 pm lack vs lacking |
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| Quote: |
| To return to the discussion, if we have no standards in any subject that is taught/ learned then what do you end up teaching/learning? |
Need one only have one standard?
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| Can a structure be built around this premise, and what of students who want a clear well defined guideline for usage? |
Fine , if you call it a guideline and not a rule.
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| How would you counter or not an argument like ............. "then what is the right usage?"? |
I'd answer... "for whom?". |
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Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
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#65 (permalink) Sun Jun 01, 2008 13:33 pm lack vs lacking |
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Hi Molly
If you loosen the standards to include different ones, where do you draw a line, researched usage, common usage, teaching consensus, learners opinions?
How might this affect teaching lessons? specifically in meeting goals and aims within a certain time frame?
Am I getting so old I can not remember saying it was a rule? ; ) btw It could be a rule of thumb as well.
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| .........."for whom?". |
the student of course. _________________ Please meet Stewart Tunncilff |
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Stew.t. I'm here quite often ;-)

Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 549 Location: Leipzig, Germany
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#66 (permalink) Sun Jun 01, 2008 15:33 pm lack vs lacking |
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If you loosen the standards to include different ones, where do you draw a line, researched usage, common usage, teaching consensus, learners opinions?
The standards have never been "tight", Stew. You only think they have. |
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Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
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#67 (permalink) Sun Jun 01, 2008 15:36 pm lack vs lacking |
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Hi Molly
I think you misinterpret what I am saying.
How do you think standard usage adjusted to include many versions would affect lessons? Especially in relation to;
specifically meeting goals and aims within a certain time frame?
cheer stew.t. _________________ Please meet Stewart Tunncilff |
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Stew.t. I'm here quite often ;-)

Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 549 Location: Leipzig, Germany
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#68 (permalink) Sun Jun 01, 2008 15:46 pm lack vs lacking |
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| Quote: |
| How do you think standard usage adjusted to include many versions would affect lessons? |
Aren't many standard versions being used right now all over the world? Do they affect lessons?
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| specifically meeting goals and aims within a certain time frame? |
Who sets the aims and goals? |
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Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
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#69 (permalink) Sun Jun 01, 2008 16:04 pm lack vs lacking |
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| Molly wrote: |
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| How do you think standard usage adjusted to include many versions would affect lessons? |
Aren't many standard versions being used right now all over the world? Do they affect lessons?
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| specifically meeting goals and aims within a certain time frame? |
Who sets the aims and goals? |
Out of interest, M., which versions of English do you teach in the classes you give?
MrP |
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MrPedantic I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 1319 Location: Southern England
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#70 (permalink) Sun Jun 01, 2008 16:05 pm lack vs lacking |
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Hi Molly
The question was structured above so you would think of them relating.
Of course lessons would be affected by trying to teach many standards/versions. Think of a single lesson or even a course. If we as teachers had to spend time teaching all standards, when would we have time to do anything else?
Exposure to the versions would be a different issue.
The goals and aims are set by the syllabus or the client(s), in conjunction with a teacher/trainer.
I would be interested to hear some of your views in relation to;
| Quote: |
But then realistically how can you transform this into an effective learning process in lessons?
How do you motivate or get a client/student to see this, or any perspective as a teacher?
Modern teachers have to have some approach, even if it is chaos , ), make intuitive decisions in the spur of the moment.
Do we follow an organizations policy, that of modern research?
If we consider standard usage and the correction in regards to errors and versions? Is their an effective method for teaching in regards to uptake (realization and application) and effective use of lesson time
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As a learner or a teacher we often see only our perspective. How do you think adopting a policy of teaching different standards might affect teaching a lesson?
@Molly and Torsten
Maybe we should move this to a separate thread it is getting a bit off topic? ; )
cheer stew.t. _________________ Please meet Stewart Tunncilff |
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Stew.t. I'm here quite often ;-)

Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 549 Location: Leipzig, Germany
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#71 (permalink) Sun Jun 01, 2008 16:09 pm lack vs lacking |
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| Quote: |
| Of course lessons would be affected by trying to teach many standards/versions. Think of a single lesson or even a course. If we as teachers had to spend time teaching all standards, when would we have time to do anything else? |
Did anyone mention all standards? And which standard do you THINK you are teaching right now? How useful is that (if it is a single "that") standard to your students? And, do you think all the parts of what you teach are realyl useful to the student, or is there maybe an inordinate amount of time spent on language that will never really be used outside the classroom?
Tell me do you teach standard written English AND standard spoken English?
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| The goals and aims are set by the syllabus or the client(s), in conjunction with a teacher/trainer. |
And you've never been asked to teach anything other than the standard form you're used to teaching? |
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Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
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#72 (permalink) Sun Jun 01, 2008 16:16 pm lack vs lacking |
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Hi, everybody
I didn't follow thoroughly the "lack v.s. lacking" discussion (mainly because you've gone off on the tangent and there's no getting the discussion back on the track ), but I found this article on the internet written probably by a native speaker and here is the sentence which has been taken from the aforementioned article by me:
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| In the next section, I argue that the structural unity of the grading system can only appear through the lacking of local, personal productive forces. This concept of lacking is distributed unevenly among social work students according to their social position within the classroom |
Could you tell me if you find the above usage of "lacking" unnatural ?
Thanks ! |
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Lost_Soul I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 15 Sep 2006 Posts: 1861 Location: South Park, Colorado, USA
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#73 (permalink) Sun Jun 01, 2008 16:23 pm lack vs lacking |
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Did anyone mention all standards?
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| And you've never been asked to teach anything other than the standard form you're used to teaching? |
not what I said now is it? And where did I say I was used to teaching anything?
Teaching as learning is a life long process for anyone dedicated to it. As is likewise a healthy debate on issues of correcting errors or versions.
As for standard written or spoken, I can not remember stating this either. It usually is genre, skills or field specific. cheers stew.t. _________________ Please meet Stewart Tunncilff |
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Stew.t. I'm here quite often ;-)

Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 549 Location: Leipzig, Germany
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#74 (permalink) Sun Jun 01, 2008 16:57 pm lack vs lacking |
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| Quote: |
| As for standard written or spoken, I can not remember stating this either. It usually is genre, skills or field specific. |
Thank goodness. |
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Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
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#75 (permalink) Sun Jun 01, 2008 16:57 pm lack vs lacking |
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Hi Alex
This quote looks familiar, care to let us know your source?
I would say it isnīt wrong, but also could be the academic style of the writer. You could substitute "the lacking of" with "the lack of" or you could change sentence order and start "The lacking in........"
cheers stew.t. _________________ Please meet Stewart Tunncilff |
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Stew.t. I'm here quite often ;-)

Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 549 Location: Leipzig, Germany
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| Sentence correction: I presume that to pursue MBA, experience is not matter. | meaning of "going on seven" |