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"solution to" vs "solution for"


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"solution to" vs "solution for" Sat May 31, 2008 0:59 am  "solution to" vs "solution for"
 

Hello Nessie,

1. The solution for X

If X is the person or thing that has the problem, #1 is fine. Thus in the BNC you'll find:

2. Scientists stress, however, that the best solution for Europe's butterflies would be to prevent further loss of habitat.

— i.e. the best solution from the point of view of Europe's butterflies.

If X is an outcome, #1 is also fine (also from the BNC):

3. This split barrier is an ideal solution for keeping out undesirables such as motorbikes while giving room for wheelchairs to pass through easily.

Also, where there is a "for" + infinitive structure (BNC):

4. It seemed a sensible solution for us to share this room.

— i.e. that we should share the room.

Also, where "for" relates to a pronoun (BNC):

5. We might conjecture that the general form of the solution for which we seek is as follows.

Or where "for" relates to time:

6. He thought about the solution for 10 minutes.

Or where "solution" relates to liquids, as in many of the BNC examples:

7. In the neophobia test (panel A) the subjects were allowed access to the saline solution for 10 min.

But in this kind of context, "solution for the problem" may sound odd to some people:

8. The solution for the problem is X.

Instead, they'll expect:

9. The solution to the problem is X.

To answer M's earlier question: if you say #8, some people will think "I wonder why he didn't say solution to". But if you say #9, no one will think "I wonder why he didn't say solution for".

All the best,

MrP
MrPedantic
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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"solution to" vs "solution for" Sat May 31, 2008 9:59 am  "solution to" vs "solution for"
 

Nessie, if you say "who" when some people expect "whom", you'll survive. If you follow Mr P's every demand - which is just what his messages really carry - you'll not understand English usage beyond his idiolect/sociolect.
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 2880

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"solution to" vs "solution for" Sat May 31, 2008 12:07 pm  "solution to" vs "solution for"
 

Molly wrote:
Nessie, if you say "who" when some people expect "whom", you'll survive. If you follow Mr P's every demand - which is just what his messages really carry - you'll not understand English usage beyond his idiolect/sociolect.

If you look at my last post, you'll find that there are no demands; only explanations.

You are perfectly free to post your own explanations, if you think that any of mine are inaccurate.

Best wishes,

MrP
MrPedantic
I'm here quite often ;-)


Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 906
Location: Southern England

"solution to" vs "solution for" Sat May 31, 2008 19:55 pm  "solution to" vs "solution for"
 

MrPedantic wrote:
Hello Nessie,

1. The solution for X

If X is the person or thing that has the problem, #1 is fine. Thus in the BNC you'll find:

2. Scientists stress, however, that the best solution for Europe's butterflies would be to prevent further loss of habitat.

— i.e. the best solution from the point of view of Europe's butterflies.

If X is an outcome, #1 is also fine (also from the BNC):

3. This split barrier is an ideal solution for keeping out undesirables such as motorbikes while giving room for wheelchairs to pass through easily.

Also, where there is a "for" + infinitive structure (BNC):

4. It seemed a sensible solution for us to share this room.

— i.e. that we should share the room.

Also, where "for" relates to a pronoun (BNC):

5. We might conjecture that the general form of the solution for which we seek is as follows.

Or where "for" relates to time:

6. He thought about the solution for 10 minutes.

Or where "solution" relates to liquids, as in many of the BNC examples:

7. In the neophobia test (panel A) the subjects were allowed access to the saline solution for 10 min.

But in this kind of context, "solution for the problem" may sound odd to some people:

8. The solution for the problem is X.

Instead, they'll expect:

9. The solution to the problem is X.

To answer M's earlier question: if you say #8, some people will think "I wonder why he didn't say solution to". But if you say #9, no one will think "I wonder why he didn't say solution for".

All the best,

MrP

Thank you very much, MrP. I understand your explanation very clearly Smile

Quote:
Nessie, if you say "who" when some people expect "whom", you'll survive. If you follow Mr P's every demand - which is just what his messages really carry - you'll not understand English usage beyond his idiolect/sociolect.

Hi Molly,
First of all, thank you very much for your comments Smile Actually I am a highschool student, and English grammar rules (also rules in language style, vocabulary,etc.) in Vietnamese schools are (and must be) followed very strictly (most of them are correct, but some are quite odd and unnatural Rolling Eyes ), so though I know there are usages that are used (or sometimes commonly used) in real life), I can't use them at school (very dangerous! Confused ) That's why I appreciate MrP's explanation very much.

But of course, I also appreciate all your ideas, explanation and comments
Thank you once again.
Nessie Smile

_________________
Sad... something we never have again, I know... I guess I really really know.. Sad

Sorry seems to be the hardest word...
nessie
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Posts: 958

"solution to" vs "solution for" Sat May 31, 2008 19:55 pm  "solution to" vs "solution for"
 

Beware! Closet prescriptivists abound.
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 2880

"solution to" vs "solution for" Sat May 31, 2008 19:56 pm  "solution to" vs "solution for"
 

Quote:
First of all, thank you very much for your comments Actually I am a highschool student, and English grammar rules (also rules in language style, vocabulary,etc.) in Vietnamese schools are (and must be) followed very strictly (most of them are correct, but some are quite odd and unnatural ), so though I know there are usages that are used (or sometimes commonly used) in real life), I can't use them at school (very dangerous! ) That's why I appreciate MrP's explanation very much.

That's great, but when you leave school, let's hope you've got more to guide you than the Mr Ps of this world. Mr P is fine when it come to pedagogical grammars, but beyond that...
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 2880

"solution to" vs "solution for" Sat May 31, 2008 20:15 pm  "solution to" vs "solution for"
 

Yes, the world of English is very enormous, and people use it quite freely in real life (sometimes too freely), but truly speaking, I still prefer to use English the way it is used in schools (here I mean schools in English speaking countries)

Many can say I'm conservative and old-fashioned but anyway, I still think however English may develop, original features should be kept to make her remain... English Smile
(by the way, though I'm only 18, I'm of classical style Very Happy)
nessie
I'm here quite often ;-)


Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 958

"solution to" vs "solution for" Sat May 31, 2008 20:44 pm  "solution to" vs "solution for"
 

Quote:
Yes, the world of English is very enormous, and people use it quite freely in real life (sometimes too freely), but truly speaking, I still prefer to use English the way it is used in schools (here I mean schools in English speaking countries)

Again that's your choice, but believe me, if your school teacher and the Mr Ps tell you to always use "whom" even in the company of native-English speakers who now use "who" (which is quite a substantial amount of speakers, BTW) then, from those "who over whom" users, you'll most likely face the same "I wonder why she didn't say..." as you would from Mr Ps pedantic friends.

Flexibility, true knowledge of, and sensitivity to, appropriate language in its social context, will allow you to call yourself a proficient or expert user one day. The rest is all limitation brought about by too much focus on the, so called, standard dialect/sociolect. My advice, go for bidialectalism, at least.
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 2880

"solution to" vs "solution for" Sat May 31, 2008 21:19 pm  "solution to" vs "solution for"
 

Hi Nessie

If you have a teacher who tells you, for example, that 'the lacking of' is a typical and standard expression in English, then you might want to look for a better teacher. Wink
.
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Amy
.
ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English
Yankee
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Location: Northeast US

"solution to" vs "solution for" Sat May 31, 2008 22:39 pm  "solution to" vs "solution for"
 

Yankee wrote:
Hi Nessie

If you have a teacher who tells you, for example, that 'the lacking of' is a typical and standard expression in English, then you might want to look for a better teacher. Wink
.

Hi, Amy

Actually, non-native teachers, even with years of experience in the field, make gaffes. For instance, our company hired a Russian English teacher to ascertain our language skills. And while speaking to us in English, she said "How do you call that", though, as I understand, you don't really say that, you'd rather say "What do you call that".

the problem is that in Russian we would nevetheless use "how", not what.
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lost_soul
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"solution to" vs "solution for" Sat May 31, 2008 23:57 pm  "solution to" vs "solution for"
 

nessie wrote:
Thank you very much, MrP. I understand your explanation very clearly

You're welcome!

MrP
MrPedantic
I'm here quite often ;-)


Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 906
Location: Southern England

"solution to" vs "solution for" Sun Jun 01, 2008 0:13 am  "solution to" vs "solution for"
 

Molly wrote:
Nessie, if you say "who" when some people expect "whom", you'll survive. If you follow Mr P's every demand - which is just what his messages really carry - you'll not understand English usage beyond his idiolect/sociolect.

Molly wrote:
Beware! Closet prescriptivists abound.

Molly wrote:
That's great, but when you leave school, let's hope you've got more to guide you than the Mr Ps of this world. Mr P is fine when it come to pedagogical grammars, but beyond that...

Molly wrote:
Again that's your choice, but believe me, if your school teacher and the Mr Ps tell you to always use "whom" even in the company of native-English speakers who now use "who" (which is quite a substantial amount of speakers, BTW) then, from those "who over whom" users, you'll most likely face the same "I wonder why she didn't say..." as you would from Mr Ps pedantic friends.

Steady on, old chap. We're discussing "the solution for" versus "the solution to", not who was responsible for World War II. (And I haven't even mentioned "whom".)

If you disagree with my explanation, simply post your counter-explanation. You're perfectly free to do so.

MrP
MrPedantic
I'm here quite often ;-)


Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 906
Location: Southern England

"solution to" vs "solution for" Sun Jun 01, 2008 0:29 am  "solution to" vs "solution for"
 

Yankee wrote:
Hi Nessie

If you have a teacher who tells you, for example, that 'the lacking of' is a typical and standard expression in English, then you might want to look for a better teacher. Wink
.

Even if Nessie were studying EAP?
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 2880

"solution to" vs "solution for" Sun Jun 01, 2008 0:32 am  "solution to" vs "solution for"
 

Don't you love explanations that end with a doom-ridden warning? I find them quite funny, if somewhat out-of-touch.
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 2880

"solution to" vs "solution for" Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:35 am  "solution to" vs "solution for"
 

Yankee wrote:
Hi Nessie

If you have a teacher who tells you, for example, that 'the lacking of' is a typical and standard expression in English, then you might want to look for a better teacher. Wink
.

No choice! Amy, no choice!

Quote:
Hi, Amy

Actually, non-native teachers, even with years of experience in the field, make gaffes. For instance, our company hired a Russian English teacher to ascertain our language skills. And while speaking to us in English, she said "How do you call that", though, as I understand, you don't really say that, you'd rather say "What do you call that".

the problem is that in Russian we would nevetheless use "how", not what.

=> Very Happy Hard to believe this, Alex, but have any of your non-native teachers ever called wind power or solar power "continual energy" instead of "renewable energy"? Or have they ever given the answer "She's the woman next to the door" to the question "Who did you talk to yesterday?" (Instead of "She's the women next door")
Very HappyVery HappyVery Happy

(I hate to reveal these things, but there are more which are... more ridiculous) Should I laugh or cry? (No idea!)
nessie
I'm here quite often ;-)


Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 958

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