Google
English-Test.net
Find penpals and make new friends today!
 
judgmental; important; crucial; vital
main
confident
critical
small
full quiz correct answer
 
Username
Password
 Remember me? 
Search   Album   FAQ   Memberlist   Profile   Private messages   Register   Log in 

Northern Europe vs North Europe



 
ESL/EFL Worksheets and Handouts for Students Printable, photocopiable, clearly structured
Designed for teachers and individual learners
For use in a classroom, at home, on your PC
ESL Forums | English Vocabulary, Grammar and Idioms
Sentence: He was (1) alive, trembling ever so (2) slightly with delight, proud... | "anyone else" vs "anyone else's"
listening exercisestell a friend
Message
Author
Northern Europe vs North Europe #1 (permalink) Wed May 28, 2008 8:22 am   Northern Europe vs North Europe
 

I'm always confused with these two.
as far as i know,
when it's separated, like North Korea and South Korea, north and south are used.
and when it's not, like Northern England and Southern England, northern and southern are used.
then why is that
Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland (republic),
and South Island and North Island in New Zealand?

and i don't know which is right, Northern Europe, or North Europe.
south southern, east eastern, and west western as well.

thanks in advance!
Penny Lane
I'm new here and I like it ;-)


Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 35

Northern Europe vs North Europe #2 (permalink) Wed May 28, 2008 8:36 am   Northern Europe vs North Europe
 

Hi Penny,

It generally depends on whether the compass description is part of the official description of the country or place or simply a description of an area. The 'official' description again is generally just the compass point as in North Korea/South Island. This of course doesn't apply for historical and political reasons to 'Northern Ireland' as that is a separate country. Otherwise 'eastern, southern and so on refer to an area of a country.

Alan
_________________
English as a Second Language
You can read my ESL story Present Simple
Alan
Co-founder
Alan Townend

Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 16603
Location: UK

Can you find all the prepositions in this story?English grammar exercises — improve your English knowledge and vocabulary skillsAre you a native speaker of English? Then you should read this!Here is how you can learn English the fun way! Click to subscribe to free email English course
Northern Europe vs North Europe #3 (permalink) Wed May 28, 2008 8:54 am   Northern Europe vs North Europe
 

How about these, Alan?

I live in the north (part) of England.
I live in the northern part of England.

Both express an area/a part.
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017

Northern Europe vs North Europe #4 (permalink) Wed May 28, 2008 9:46 am   Northern Europe vs North Europe
 

Sure, but the question was originally about the use of 'north/northern' or whatever immediately before the name of a country or similarly named place.

Alan
_________________
English as a Foreign Language
You can read my EFL story Progressive Forms
Alan
Co-founder
Alan Townend

Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 16603
Location: UK

Northern Europe vs North Europe #5 (permalink) Wed May 28, 2008 10:40 am   Northern Europe vs North Europe
 

thanks Alan!
so you mean, north, south and so on refer to a description of an area or a country,
while northern, southern and so on refer to an area of a country.
(i don't think i've fully understood this though! kind of,!)

so, the correct one is 'Northern Europe'. not 'North Europe' huh?

then, what about this?

Northern European countries
or
North European countries

should be 'Northern European' i guess?
it's so confusing!
Penny Lane
I'm new here and I like it ;-)


Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 35

Northern Europe vs North Europe #6 (permalink) Wed May 28, 2008 10:46 am   Northern Europe vs North Europe
 

Hi Penny,

The best way to look at it is to use 'ern' forms when you are merely describing the area and the actual compass points (North/South/East/West) when you are referring to a country or continent. 'Northern Europe' describes for me a geographical area. 'North Europe' doesn't work for me because 'Europe' is not a country.

Alan
_________________
English as a Second Language
You can read my ESL story Passive Voice
Alan
Co-founder
Alan Townend

Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 16603
Location: UK

Northern Europe vs North Europe #7 (permalink) Wed May 28, 2008 10:50 am   Northern Europe vs North Europe
 

Alan wrote:
Hi Penny,

The best way to look at it is to use 'ern' forms when you are merely describing the area and the actual compass points (North/South/East/West) when you are referring to a country or continent. 'Northern Europe' describes for me a geographical area. 'North Europe' doesn't work for me because 'Europe' is not a country.

Alan


What do we do with Northwest/ern England, for example?
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017

Northern Europe vs North Europe #8 (permalink) Wed May 28, 2008 10:53 am   Northern Europe vs North Europe
 

If you're describing the geographical area, I would say 'northwestern England', wouldn't you?

Alan
_________________
English as a Foreign Language
You can read my EFL story Prepositions
Alan
Co-founder
Alan Townend

Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 16603
Location: UK

Northern Europe vs North Europe #9 (permalink) Wed May 28, 2008 11:06 am   Northern Europe vs North Europe
 

Alan wrote:
If you're describing the geographical area, I would say 'northwestern England', wouldn't you?

Alan


Not sure. "He comes from northwest/ern England". Which would you use?
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017

Northern Europe vs North Europe #10 (permalink) Wed May 28, 2008 11:07 am   Northern Europe vs North Europe
 

We stick with North West England (the compass point description) as it is common, standard usage.

As it happens my parents live in the North West (area), but are not North Westerners (people) by birth.

It is rare to here the latter for the geographical area, as Alan has explained.

North Western, to my ear sounds like a possible music style akin to New Country; often bands such as Whiskytown are described as New Country.
I have a C.D. compilation titled Sounds of the New West.

So it is difficult to point to exact rules, but I think Alanīs thumb is very close to the usage and itīs link to meaning.

cheers stew.t.
_________________
Please meet Stewart Tunncilff
Stew.t.
I'm here quite often ;-)


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 561
Location: Leipzig, Germany

Northern Europe vs North Europe #11 (permalink) Wed May 28, 2008 11:18 am   Northern Europe vs North Europe
 

Thanks, stew.t. BTW, your name sounds like that of a DJ, or maybe a rapper.
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017

Northern Europe vs North Europe #12 (permalink) Wed May 28, 2008 13:10 pm   Northern Europe vs North Europe
 

Hi Molly

If the moderators donīt mind a tangent theme.
The stew.t. came about due to two very different reasons.

Firstly back in the North West of England I used to hang around with a half dozen stewarts/stuarts, so we gave ourselves nicknames.
Secondly when I moved to Leipzig, there was another stewart in one of the schools, so I became known as stew.t. and him stew.c.

This has stuck, and has replaced my previous nickname of Tunni.

p.s. maybe I should copyright it, then if a DJ or rapper comes along and wants the name, I get some cash ; )

cheers stew.t.
_________________
Please meet Stewart Tunncilff
Stew.t.
I'm here quite often ;-)


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 561
Location: Leipzig, Germany

Display posts from previous:   
Sentence: He was (1) alive, trembling ever so (2) slightly with delight, proud... | "anyone else" vs "anyone else's"
ESL Forums | English Vocabulary, Grammar and Idioms All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1
Latest topics on ESL EFL Forums
What function do this sentence: Could you send me a quote by fax?structures with "look like"how vs what ... likeUsage of 'as many as'Usage of "ask for" (She asked me for some money.)'in the end' vs. 'finally'What does 'try to figure out' mean?European Commission vs European CommitteeDifference in meaning: He was sitting just (just sitting) by the graveUsage of comma(, ) with 'and'Sentence express: Do you mind if i smoke?What do we call the noise that crickets make?difference between I've trying to call and I've tried to call

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Subscribe to FREE email English course
First name E-mail