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 #17 (permalink) Sat May 31, 2008 9:38 am complicate vs. complicated |
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How about,
The wings of those insects are more complicate. |
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Haihao
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| #18 (permalink) Sat May 31, 2008 9:44 am complicate vs. complicated |
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| Haihao wrote: |
How about,
The wings of those insects are more complicate. |
This, again, is from biological sciences. The original sentence didn't involve biology. If "complicate" can be used in the original sentence, then I need to see an example from outside the field of biology and in similar usage to that in the sentence that the thread began with. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #19 (permalink) Sat May 31, 2008 9:55 am complicate vs. complicated |
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Then how about this one,
With this approach it's a bit more complicate to implement the "simple" RowTest scenario, but it allows also to implement more complicate ones. |
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Haihao
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| #20 (permalink) Sat May 31, 2008 15:47 pm complicate vs. complicated |
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| sweetpumpkin wrote: |
| Surely, complicate 'can' fill in the blank, but most of native speakers use 'complicated' instead of it and think the latter is more natural... my guess. |
I would agree with you.
"Complicate" (adj.) with the sense "interwoven", "compound" or "complex" is quite archaic. I would only expect to encounter it in a C17 or C18 text, or in the works of a deliberately archaic stylist such as Pater.
"Complicate" (adj.) in the botanical or entomological sense, on the other hand, where it relates to certain "folded" aspects of an organ, would tend to occur only in a formal taxonomic description, or a context such as this:
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[From a dichotomous key to certain liverworts:]
Plant-body a leafy axis (Jungermanniaceae). 1
Plant-body a thallus. 30.
1. Leaves incubous. 2.
Leaves succubous. 13.
2. Leaves complicate-bilobed or with a small lower lobe. 3.
Leaves not complicate-bilobed or with a small lower lobe. 7.
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Thus although "complicate" is not technically impossible in your context (perhaps as a bizarre metaphor), it is inappropriate, in comparison with "complicated" (the "natural" choice; as the advertisers might say).
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #21 (permalink) Sat May 31, 2008 15:48 pm complicate vs. complicated |
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| Haihao wrote: |
Then how about this one,
With this approach it's a bit more complicate to implement the "simple" RowTest scenario, but it allows also to implement more complicate ones. |
I think that would be a pair of typos.
All the best,
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #22 (permalink) Sat May 31, 2008 22:22 pm complicate vs. complicated |
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| It's convenient to judge them as a pair of typos and that's why I quoted a sentence with two of them, which would help increase the possibility they were not just typos. |
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Haihao
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| #23 (permalink) Sat May 31, 2008 22:47 pm complicate vs. complicated |
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Hello Haihao,
I think the source must be this page. There are a number of other grammatical and spelling mistakes on the page; it's the blog of one Simone Chiaretta, "an Italian .NET developer, architect, Subtext core member", etc. So I would take them for typos.
(For interest, this search shows several other Italy-based webpages with "very complicate". In those I've looked at, "very complicated" was the intended meaning.)
All the best,
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #24 (permalink) Sat May 31, 2008 22:56 pm complicate vs. complicated |
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Hi MrP,
You are right about 'this page' and 'this search' is helpful. Your information is convincing. I am sorry for my ignorance and thank you very much for your help.
Haihao |
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Haihao
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| #25 (permalink) Sat May 31, 2008 23:05 pm complicate vs. complicated |
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| MrPedantic wrote: |
| I think the source must be this page. There are a number of other grammatical and spelling mistakes on the page; it's the blog of one Simone Chiaretta, "an Italian .NET developer, architect, Subtext core member", etc. So I would take them for typos. |
I wouldn't take them as typos, but as actual morphological errors. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #26 (permalink) Sat May 31, 2008 23:36 pm complicate vs. complicated |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| Okay, Mr. Corpus, show me a real-life case in which "complicate" is used adjectivally in a comparable sentence. |
Hm, interesting that you didn't ask the same of Sweetpumkin. Why is that?
OK, just to keep you happy:
"What pleasure would felicitate his spirit, if he could grasp all in a survey; as a painter runs over a complicate piece wrought by Titian or Raphael."
Watts's Improv. of the Mind.
Have another, for free.
How poor, how rich, how abject, how august,
How complicate, how wonderful is man!
Young. |
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Molly
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| #27 (permalink) Sat May 31, 2008 23:59 pm complicate vs. complicated |
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| Molly wrote: |
OK, just to keep you happy:
What pleasure would felicitate his spirit, if he could grasp all in a survey; as a painter runs over a complicate piece wrought by Titian or Raphael. Watts's Improv. of the Mind.
Watts's Improv. of the Mind. |
First published in 1741.
That complicate was once in current Use as an Adjective, is not in Doubt; cf.
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"Complicate" (adj.) with the sense "interwoven", "compound" or "complex" is quite archaic. I would only expect to encounter it in a C17 or C18 text, or in the works of a deliberately archaic stylist such as Pater.
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MrP
PS: I see you've added a quote from the first of Young's Night-Thoughts. First published 1742. |
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MrPedantic
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| #28 (permalink) Sun Jun 01, 2008 0:04 am complicate vs. complicated |
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Complicate (adj.) is still in use. Now you just have to figure out if you want to limit its use, folks. It's one thing to say that it cannot be used here "_______ application procedures have resulted in a drop in interest in our investment and other financial services packages." and another to suggest one doesn't use it. Which do you all say?
Note the modal aux. "can" here:
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| I could conclude then both complicate and complicated 'can' fill in the blank above. |
Hope you all know how to use modals. |
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Molly
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| #29 (permalink) Sun Jun 01, 2008 0:17 am complicate vs. complicated |
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| Molly wrote: |
Complicate (adj.) is still in use. Now you just have to figure out if you want to limit its use, folks.
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We are all agreed that "complicate" is still in use, in the field of biology:
| Jamie wrote: |
This usage appears to be limited to the field of biology, and an ordinary person can go through his entire life without encountering it. For all other usages, it's best to go with "complicated".
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| MrP wrote: |
"Complicate" (adj.) in the botanical or entomological sense, on the other hand, where it relates to certain "folded" aspects of an organ, would tend to occur only in a formal taxonomic description, or a context such as this:
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We are also all agreed that it makes no sense in the example:
| Molly wrote: |
...that it cannot be used here "_______ application procedures have resulted in a drop in interest in our investment and other financial services packages."
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So what exactly is your problem?
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #30 (permalink) Sun Jun 01, 2008 0:22 am complicate vs. complicated |
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When Mr P says "we are also all agreed", does he mean the whole forum, or is he referring to the 2 or 3 posters who agree? And is he saying it cannot be used or simply that it makes no sense to him and a couple of others? I wish he'd decide.
And "complicate" (adj.) is used beyond the field of biology. |
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Molly
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| "Walking on the footpath" vs "Walking along the footpath" | I've drunk two cups of tea this morning. vs I drank two cups of tea this morning. |
