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 #17 (permalink) Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:44 am Why are women called fairer sex? |
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| Molly wrote: |
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| Here is an interesting anthropological view from Peter Frost. He puts forward the theory that because girls are generally fairer haired after puberty than boys, this could have led to the use of the phrase "the fairer sex". (Fair Women, Dark Men; The forgotten roots of racial prejudice"). |
So one can't use "fairer sex" for big black ladies like me, right? |
You mean big British men like you?
And if you really were a big black lady, yes, the fairer sex could be used for you also, because "fairer" doesn't mean lighter haired in that expression but "gentler". |
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Jamie (K)
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| #18 (permalink) Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:46 am Why are women called fairer sex? |
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| The use of "fair/er" sex is often attributed, rightly or wrongly, to Cervantes. He used the term "el bello sexo". |
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Molly
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| #19 (permalink) Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:48 am Why are women called fairer sex? |
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Hi Molly
Have you read his book?
He talks about ladies having fairer hair than men when you compare like with like.
His point I believe was not to compare the fairness of the hair of a black lady and a white man after puberty.
And if you want to know if you can use the term for yourself, stemming from this view ask the author.
Or is this your subtle way of asking me? 
cheers stew.t.
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Stew.t.
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| #20 (permalink) Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:55 am Why are women called fairer sex? |
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I haven't noticed that Spanish women have fairer hair that the men here.
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| Or is this your subtle way of asking me? |
It's my subtle way of saying that I think his idea is nonsense. |
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Molly
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| #21 (permalink) Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:57 am Why are women called fairer sex? |
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| Molly wrote: |
I haven't noticed that Spanish women have fairer hair that the men here.
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| Or is this your subtle way of asking me? |
It's my subtle way of saying that I think his idea is nonsense. |
For once I agree with Molly on something. |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 5334
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| #22 (permalink) Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:00 am Why are women called fairer sex? |
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| Quote: |
| Anybody who tries to tie it into racial prejudice or anything similar is playing a dishonest game with language or,... |
So you've done research that allows you to conclude that the term was in no way intended to supress women's possibilities, have you? Where and what did you research?
You do agree it is a form of gender stereotyping though, don't you? |
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Molly
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| #23 (permalink) Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:01 am Why are women called fairer sex? |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| For once I agree with Molly on something. |
It won't last.  |
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Molly
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Posts: 4017
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| #24 (permalink) Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:05 am Why are women called fairer sex? |
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| Molly wrote: |
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| Anybody who tries to tie it into racial prejudice or anything similar is playing a dishonest game with language or,... |
So you've done research that allows you to conclude that the term was in no way intended to supress women's possibilities, have you? Where and what did you research? |
Even people who have done "research" into it can't get into the minds and intentions of millions and millions of people over centuries. They simply scan a bunch of literature, fill any gaps with their own personal conjecture and reach a predetermined conclusion. That's how most feminist "research" of that type is conducted. A dictionary is more reliable than their "research". |
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Jamie (K)
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Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 5334
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| #25 (permalink) Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:09 am Why are women called fairer sex? |
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| Quote: |
| A dictionary is more reliable than their "research". |
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
Nig"ger (?), n. A negro; -- in vulgar derision or depreciation.
http://machaut.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/WEBSTER.sh?WORD=nigger
And this was my question to you:
You do agree it is a form of gender stereotyping though, don't you? |
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Molly
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| #26 (permalink) Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:10 am Why are women called fairer sex? |
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Hi Jamie K
I thought pointing out this guy´s wacky theories might get the thread back on track to the discussion topic.
I think the use of fair as in "gentle" is more of a possibility as well.
I have always associated it with usage in some traditional English literature, and if you take into account the traditional view of women, then it is probably how they mean it.
"My fair lady" is also a pointer to this kind of usage.
As the premise in the story was to take the coarseness of a commoner and turn her into a fair lady. not by dying her hair, but rounding off her rough edges.
cheers stew.t.
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Stew.t.
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| #27 (permalink) Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:15 am Why are women called fairer sex? |
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| Quote: |
| I thought pointing out this guy´s wacky theories might get the thread back on track to the discussion topic. |
Hey, Stew, this was the question:
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| I've always wondered why women are called fairer sex. Does anyone know? |
This link: http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTGENDER/Resources/wp4.pdf
And this: http://oieahc.wm.edu/wmq/Oct02/burgett.pdf
Have suggestions as to "why women are called (the) fairer sex". Now why don't you think such discussions are pertinent to this thread? Why are they "off-track"? |
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Molly
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| #28 (permalink) Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:18 am Why are women called fairer sex? |
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| Quote: |
"My fair lady" is also a pointer to this kind of usage.
As the premise in the story was to take the coarseness of a commoner and turn her into a fair lady. not by dying her hair, but rounding off her rough edges. |
Why do you think the original story was called "Pygmalion"? |
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Molly
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| #29 (permalink) Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:37 am Why are women called fairer sex? |
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The original story was of course a play by George Bernard Shaw, as I am sure you know. And loosely based on Ovid`s tale of Pygmalion.
Is it fair to change someone´s accent in the way depicted in the play?
What about the concept of accents, is it fair to ask employees not to speak in their dialect but a standard English accent?
cheers stew.t.
_________________
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Stew.t.
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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Location: Leipzig, Germany
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| #30 (permalink) Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:43 am Why are women called fairer sex? |
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| Quote: |
| You mean big British men like you? |
Where is this nonsense coming from, Jamie? What makes you think I'm a British man? |
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Molly
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