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 Wed Jun 11, 2008 16:38 pm Are people guilty for the sins of their ancestors? |
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| Quote: | | How is it that so many people in Europe are ignorant of the historical sources of their beliefs? They spew discredited Marxist drivel, but if you point out that it's Marxist at its source, they get angry and call us all kinds of names, just as you do. |
I see the American right going off at a tangent and one that reminds me of high-school politics or Disneyland follow-your-dream mentality. Go WASPs, go! |
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Molly
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Joined: 12 Feb 2008
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| Wed Jun 11, 2008 16:39 pm Are people guilty for the sins of their ancestors? |
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| Quote: | | A day-job buddy of mine (writer/director) and I (biz director) are part of a group of four people formed to produce and sell motion pictures |
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I imagine those films are in black and white, right? LOL! |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 3815
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| Wed Jun 11, 2008 16:40 pm Are people guilty for the sins of their ancestors? |
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| Molly wrote: | | Quote: | | How is it that so many people in Europe are ignorant of the historical sources of their beliefs? They spew discredited Marxist drivel, but if you point out that it's Marxist at its source, they get angry and call us all kinds of names, just as you do. |
I see the American right going off at a tangent and one that reminds me of high-school politics or Disneyland follow-your-dream mentality. Go WASPs, go! |
Stop assuming I'm a WASP. I'm not. |
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Jamie (K)
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Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4337
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Wed Jun 11, 2008 16:40 pm Are people guilty for the sins of their ancestors? |
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| Quote: | | Of course, since you're more interested in radical leftist ideology than in empirical truth, you won't accept what has been demonstrated again and again. |
There you go again. |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 3815
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| Wed Jun 11, 2008 16:41 pm Are people guilty for the sins of their ancestors? |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: | | Stop assuming I'm a WASP. I'm not. |
You do a pretty good imitation of one. |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 3815
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| Wed Jun 11, 2008 16:43 pm Are people guilty for the sins of their ancestors? |
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| Molly wrote: | | Jamie (K) wrote: | | Stop assuming I'm a WASP. I'm not. |
You do a pretty good imitation of one. |
Sorry, but WASPs in the US usually think like you. |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4337
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Wed Jun 11, 2008 16:46 pm Are people guilty for the sins of their ancestors? |
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| Quote: | | You act as if it all happens by some cosmic accident. |
Not at all, but you act as if everyone who doesn't "get there" is lazy, obese, slow-minded, politically misguided, etc. I never see you writing about the ones who didn't get there, except to tell us all how most of them became panhandlers. There are many who have followed, and failed, at the "you can but try" mentality. Not all of them failed of their own account.
I used to like and love many things American, but now I'm disgusted by most Americans and their high-school, self-centred politics.
You play the easy game of asking us if people should pay for/feel guilty for the sins of their ancestors when you know that most people will agree with you that they shouldn't, but can you open your remit to telling us whether people should feel guilt for the sins of their peers? Should, for example, Muslims feel guilt for the actions of a few of their fellow Muslims? |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 3815
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| Wed Jun 11, 2008 17:03 pm Are people guilty for the sins of their ancestors? |
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| Molly wrote: | | Quote: | | A day-job buddy of mine (writer/director) and I (biz director) are part of a group of four people formed to produce and sell motion pictures |
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I imagine those films are in black and white, right? LOL! |
ROFL
Actually, Clerks was in b/w, and that was a pretty good movie.
I won't assume anything, so just out of curiosity, what are your economic views?
Do you favor forced economic equality or economic freedom? Remember, we can't have both.
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Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee. |
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prezbucky
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Location: Nashville, TN (USA)
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| Wed Jun 11, 2008 17:04 pm Are people guilty for the sins of their ancestors? |
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If you're a socialist, we're not going to agree on much -- at least not in terms of economic structure/policy. I can't stand socialism -- to me it's the economics of defeatism/fatalism/pessimism... the chosen economic system of (sorry, but gotta say it) losers: "Give me your hard-earned money so I can continue to sit on my tail."
"And no, you can't succeed, so don't even try!" |
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prezbucky
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Joined: 07 Nov 2006
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Location: Nashville, TN (USA)
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| Wed Jun 11, 2008 17:07 pm Are people guilty for the sins of their ancestors? |
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| Molly wrote: | | Quote: | | You act as if it all happens by some cosmic accident. |
Not at all, but you act as if everyone who doesn't "get there" is lazy, obese, slow-minded, politically misguided, etc. I never see you writing about the ones who didn't get there, except to tell us all how most of them became panhandlers. There are many who have followed, and failed, at the "you can but try" mentality. Not all of them failed of their own account. |
There you go again making weird claims about what I said. Most people who don't become really successful in the US don't become panhandlers, and I never said it. However, I have enough experience of street people to have seen that the majority of them are there because of something they did. (Sometimes what they did could even be avoiding government assistance programs!) Some of them shot heroin or smoked crack, some are drunks, and there are even a few of them who indulged their consumer appetites completely on credit, and refused to scale back, until they wound up having everything repossessed. People in that last category -- if they ever wind up on the street at all -- usually don't stay there long, because they learn from their mistakes.
It's been statistically shown that a combination of just a few simple things will keep people out of poverty in the US:
1. Graduate from high school.
2. Get into the workforce as soon as possible -- any kind of honest job, even a poorly paid one.
3. Get married before you have children.
4. Stay married.
5. Don't engage in criminal behavior.
6. Don't get addicted to drugs or alcohol.
These are not hard to do.
Most of the people who wind up in a really bad situation do so because of laziness, an unwillingness to delay gratification, a false sense of defeatism (sometimes self-induced, but often instilled in them by social and political activists), bad impulse control, not saving money. These are all things that people can master, but some of them choose not to.
People with handicaps or serious mental disabilities are a different story, but they usually don't end up on the street, and as Prezbucky said, many handicaps can be overcome. In fact, there are even people with Downs syndrome who are financially better off than their smart siblings, because someone trained them to save a certain percentage of their income, and the people don't override this principle with "intelligent reason".
| Molly wrote: | | I used to like and love many things American, but now I'm disgusted by most Americans and their high-school, self-centred politics. |
Americans are generally more generous to the poor with their time and money than people generally are in Europe.
I used to think like you some years ago, but I was really blinding myself with phony intellectualism. Broader reading habits and suspending my leftist ideological blather while I observed the world changed my ideas. |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4337
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Wed Jun 11, 2008 17:08 pm Are people guilty for the sins of their ancestors? |
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| Molly wrote: | | Quote: | | You act as if it all happens by some cosmic accident. |
Not at all, but you act as if everyone who doesn't "get there" is lazy, obese, slow-minded, politically misguided, etc. I never see you writing about the ones who didn't get there, except to tell us all how most of them became panhandlers. There are many who have followed, and failed, at the "you can but try" mentality. Not all of them failed of their own account.
I used to like and love many things American, but now I'm disgusted by most Americans and their high-school, self-centred politics.
You play the easy game of asking us if people should pay for/feel guilty for the sins of their ancestors when you know that most people will agree with you that they shouldn't, but can you open your remit to telling us whether people should feel guilt for the sins of their peers? Should, for example, Muslims feel guilt for the actions of a few of their fellow Muslims? |
Good question -- if I knew someone who was going to blow up something, I'd like to think I'd try to stop him.
But would I?
That is a very good question!
_________________
Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee. |
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prezbucky
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2145
Location: Nashville, TN (USA)
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| Wed Jun 11, 2008 17:08 pm Are people guilty for the sins of their ancestors? |
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| prezbucky wrote: | If you're a socialist, we're not going to agree on much -- at least not in terms of economic structure/policy. I can't stand socialism -- to me it's the economics of defeatism/fatalism/pessimism... the chosen economic system of (sorry, but gotta say it) losers: "Give me your hard-earned money so I can continue to sit on my tail."
"And no, you can't succeed, so don't even try!" |
Socialism is also a form of theft. |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4337
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Wed Jun 11, 2008 17:11 pm Are people guilty for the sins of their ancestors? |
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exactly why I hate it
On the political compass test, every time I see the "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" statement I puke.
(figuratively)
...and hit the "Strongly Disagree" option. |
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prezbucky
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2145
Location: Nashville, TN (USA)
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| Wed Jun 11, 2008 17:13 pm Are people guilty for the sins of their ancestors? |
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we can't go totally without welfare -- some people can't help themselves, or are laid off through no fault of their own. Those things happen, and there needs to be assistance for them.
But there's plenty of opportunity here, and really no reason for an able-bodied/minded person not to be able to at least secure a job.
It might take effort, but guess what, so does breathing. |
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prezbucky
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Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2145
Location: Nashville, TN (USA)
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| Against European legislation: native language as a job requirement? | googleganger |
