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 Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:07 am a verse from "Born in the USA" |
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| Molly wrote: | | Americans, can you tell me what this means? |
Molly, you've been pounding the drum for months here advocating the idea that the distinction between native speaker and non-native speaker isn't important. You have been claiming that what you call an "expert user" (such as you regard yourself) is equal to or better than a native speaker in language knowledge.
And yet here you are unable to interpret a simple song stanza that even the most poorly schooled American or Briton would understand. Evidently you lack the cultural competence that is necessary for full understanding of everyday English -- and so you have to ask native speakers what it means.
I think this puts your argument to rest definitively. |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4337
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:46 am a verse from "Born in the USA" |
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| Quote: | | And yet here you are unable to interpret a simple song stanza that even the most poorly schooled American or Briton would understand. |
Ah, so now you're including Brits. Why did you exclude them in the first place and why do you exclude Aussies, New Zealanders, the Irish, for example?
| Quote: | | When they do make sense, it often requires a three-page cultural treatise to explain them to someone who isn't American. |
First you say, "When they do make sense, it often requires a three-page cultural treatise to explain them to someone who isn't American." and then you accuse me of not having the cultural competence to interpret your extract. Odd contradiction.
Have a look at Nigerian writing and tell me how your cultural competence fits. |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 3815
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| Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:43 pm a verse from "Born in the USA" |
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| Molly wrote: | | Quote: | | And yet here you are unable to interpret a simple song stanza that even the most poorly schooled American or Briton would understand. |
Ah, so now you're including Brits. Why did you exclude them in the first place and why do you exclude Aussies, New Zealanders, the Irish, for example?
| Quote: | | When they do make sense, it often requires a three-page cultural treatise to explain them to someone who isn't American. |
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There is enough cross-over of English-language media for Americans, Brits and Australians to understand things like this. |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4337
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Sun Jun 15, 2008 16:37 pm a verse from "Born in the USA" |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: | | There is enough cross-over of English-language media for Americans, Brits and Australians to understand things like this. |
As with many items on this forum. You spend time explaining those, why can't you ,with you superior cultural knowledge, explain the extract you posted? |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 3815
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| Mon Jun 16, 2008 0:39 am a verse from "Born in the USA" |
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| Molly wrote: | | Jamie (K) wrote: | | There is enough cross-over of English-language media for Americans, Brits and Australians to understand things like this. |
As with many items on this forum. You spend time explaining those, why can't you ,with you superior cultural knowledge, explain the extract you posted? |
Because it's you, Molly. If we could see that you were genuinely interested in what we have to say to you, then we would happily communicate with you. But most of your posts do not convey the impression that you're interested in getting a candid and sincere response. You seem pleased enough to have the last say. Sniping, flaming and trolling - the things that you indulge in most of the time, whether you like it or not.
It seems pointless and absurd at the same time. Why say something for the sake of saying something  I'd say you're intelligent enough to know better!
_________________
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TOEFL Preparation & TOEFL Vocabulary
Learn more: How to Become an English Teacher |
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Ralf
Language Coach
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 1434
Location: EU (Ireland and Germany)
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| Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:54 am a verse from "Born in the USA" |
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| Quote: | | It seems pointless and absurd at the same time. Why say something for the sake of saying something I'd say you're intelligent enough to know better! |
You're hilarious, Ralf. First, I'd ask the same question to Jamie. Why do you think he said this if it wasn't true or worth saying?
| Quote: | | When they do make sense, it often requires a three-page cultural treatise to explain them to someone who isn't American. |
Second, I'd check out some of your own "time-wasting" posts. Your problem, as with Amy, Mr P and Jamie is you always point the finger in another direction. You are, in your own minds, squeaky clean and love to give the impression that you are provoked into your nonsense posts. Give us a break, Ralf. All three of you also spout things that are incorrect, false, and that smack of the arrogance and self-annointed superiority of the native speaker. I find that pathetic and insulting. So, you stop that, and I'll stop challenging you all.
Now, I really cannot understand the meaning of the extract below. I would like Jamie to explain it. If he can't, then he should stop making comments such as the one above.
| Quote: | And there's ghosts in the eyes of all the boys you sent away.
They haunt this dusty beach road in the skeleton frames of burnt-out Chevrolets.
They scream your name at night in the streets.
Your graduation gown lies in rags at their feet.
And in the lonely gloom before dawn, you hear their engines roarin' on... |
We get the same nonsense comments from Mr P, who mentions "standard spoken English" but then cannot explain his use of such a term and we get Amy who waffles on about "second-language interference" and cannot take her argument further than the first post. All natives, and all attempting to fool us into thinking they know more than they really do. Do they do it from insecurity, or as a need to make nonnative speakers feel inferior? I'd say a bit of both. It's boring and misleading. So...
Of course, if all four of you want to say "I don't like to be challenged on my comment - and especially not by nonnative speakers" fine, but then don't expect the rest of us to rise to your challenges to our comments. All's fair in war and... |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 3815
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| Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:22 am a verse from "Born in the USA" |
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Do you see this post as "pointless and absurd at the same time.", Ralf? How about as "Sniping, flaming and trolling"?
Mon May 12, 2008 12:44 pm due to, because of, thanks to?
| Quote: | Molly points to "too much native speaker intuition", because she keeps making mistakes she can't avoid. If you criticise her, she bends some corpus or other her way to support her point. If you or Alan or Torsten or anybody makes a mistake, she lifts her disparaging fingers to distract from her own shortcomings.
I would argue that this attitude is both a sign of weakness and ignorance. But it keeps her busy using the English language, and on the long run she'll improve her writing skills. |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 3815
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| Is this sentence ok? (Read aloud the following dialogue...) | Sentence: The group is trying to bring fast food chains to my town. |
