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 Tue Jun 17, 2008 13:58 pm "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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| Molly wrote: | | I agree with Jamie |
That's one for the record books.
Does that mean you disagree with Haihao?
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Amy
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Yankee
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| Tue Jun 17, 2008 14:31 pm "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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| Yankee wrote: | Does that mean you disagree with Haihao?
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What do you think?
Who do you agree with, apart from Mr P, that is?  |
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Molly
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| Tue Jun 17, 2008 15:18 pm "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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| I would like to lay an emphasis on the 'may' the original sentence carries. That's why I agree with MrP's positive and negative assessment. I also found Molly's examples without 'may' were indeed all negative to me so I couldn't on the other hand argue with her on this point. |
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Haihao
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lost_soul
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| Tue Jun 17, 2008 19:16 pm "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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In the first one ("can never compare itself"), the vulture must be "self-aware" and making the comparison himself. That is unlikley in real life.
In the second one ("can never be compared") it's more of an admonition to not compare the two.
In the third ("does not compare") it's a value judgement - the hawk is far superior and the vulture just does not compare (favorably). |
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Barb_D
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| Tue Jun 17, 2008 19:22 pm "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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I agree with Barb's take. The only thing I might add is that a vulture might possibly compare (or not compare) itself to a vulture in the context of a story, for example, in which the vulture is given human qualities.
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| Tue Jun 17, 2008 23:27 pm "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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| lost_soul wrote: | MrPedantic wrote:
3. No matter how high a vulture flies, it can never compare itself with a hawk.
Do you think the above sentence is right?
Shouldn't it be worded as follows:
Quote:
...a vulture can never be compared to a hawk
...a vulture does not compare with a hawk
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I agree that the vulture might be a bird in a fable or a proverb, where non-human creatures are permitted human thoughts.
(I can imagine it in a novel by the African writer Chinua Achebe, for instance.)
On your rewordings, I couldn't put it better than Barb.
Best wishes,
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| Tue Jun 17, 2008 23:34 pm "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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1. However hard you try, you'll never pass that exam.
2. No matter how hard you try, you'll never pass that exam.
It seems to me that #1 implies simply that your maximum effort will be insufficient; whereas #2 also implies that it doesn't matter how much effort you put into it: it will still be insufficient.
Thus #1 seems a softer statement, to me. I would find it less discouraging.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| Tue Jun 17, 2008 23:41 pm "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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| Quote: | | It seems to me that #1 implies simply that your maximum effort will be insufficient; whereas #2 also implies that it doesn't matter how much effort you put into it: it will still be insufficient. |
Do you think that "distinction" is general, or is it a personal/private distinction? |
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Molly
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| Tue Jun 17, 2008 23:47 pm "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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| Molly wrote: | | Quote: | | It seems to me that #1 implies simply that your maximum effort will be insufficient; whereas #2 also implies that it doesn't matter how much effort you put into it: it will still be insufficient. |
Do you think that "distinction" is general, or is it a personal/private distinction? |
We'll soon find out, my friend.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| Wed Jun 18, 2008 0:16 am "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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| Quote: | | We'll soon find out, my friend. |
Before all that, do you see it as a personal view, or do you already know that it is general?
So, are you saying this?
However much = the maximum
No matter how much = on a scale from 0 to max |
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Molly
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| Wed Jun 18, 2008 0:28 am "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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Who wrote "can not"?
It's "cannot"!
FIE!
Enough people have misused it (can not) that some are now referring to it as acceptable... but "cannot" is the traditional form. There is no need for "can not". All a writer has to do is choose the correct expression of it. there is no difference in meaning between "can not" and "cannot", so why do we continue seeing "can not"?
It's not that important really... just a grammatical pet peeve of mine. |
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prezbucky
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| Wed Jun 18, 2008 0:28 am "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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| "can not" and "irregardless"... grrrrrr. |
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prezbucky
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| Wed Jun 18, 2008 0:31 am "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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| Quote: | | Enough people have misused it (can not) that some are now referring to it as acceptable... but "cannot" is the traditional form. |
You might find that the traditional form no longer has the hold you may wish it had.
But let's go back to 1828:
CANNOT, [can and not.] These words are usually united, but perhaps without good reason; canst and not are never united.
http://1828.mshaffer.com/d/word/cannot
1913:
Cannot
Can"not (?). [Can to be able _ -not.] Am, is, or are, not able; -- written either as one word or two.
http://machaut.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/WEBSTER.sh?WORD=cannot
So how traditional do you want to get? |
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Molly
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| Difference between 'get sth done' and 'have sth done' | What does 'what' mean? (What with being so busy both at work and and at...) |
