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 Wed Jun 18, 2008 0:44 am "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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I think it's more like this:
can not - strong form
cannot - weaker form
can't - weakest form
All three can be found being used by certain native speakers in different contexts.
| Quote: | | If "cannot" is the choice of professional writers and most teachers, |
But is it?
The BNC, for the Academic register (where one would hope to find professional writers) gives CAN NOT- 6422 per 1 million words, but 0 for CANNOT. |
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Molly
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| Wed Jun 18, 2008 0:48 am "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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perhaps, but for every one "can not" I could prolly find a hundred "cannot"s -- looking at all books, newspapers, magazines, professional-level essays, etc.
hehe |
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prezbucky
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| Wed Jun 18, 2008 0:58 am "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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The American Corpus, for the Academic register, gives:
CANNOT - 0
CAN NOT - 21261
For all "books, newspapers, magazines, professional-level essays, etc." the American corpus gives.
CAN NOT - 56588
CANNOT - 105
Back to the drawing board, Prez?  |
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Molly
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| Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:25 am Are you trying to scam everyone or what, Molly? |
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| Molly wrote: | | The BNC, for the Academic register (where one would hope to find professional writers) gives CAN NOT- 6422 per 1 million words, but 0 for CANNOT. |
| Molly wrote: | The American Corpus, for the Academic register, gives:
CANNOT - 0
CAN NOT - 21261
For all "books, newspapers, magazines, professional-level essays, etc." the American corpus gives.
CAN NOT - 56588
CANNOT - 105 |
Are you purposely trying to spread misinformation, "Molly"? Are you purposely trying to misrepresent corpora numbers and information?
Or is it just that you do not understand how to use the corpora as well as you would like others to think you do?
You'd look a lot less foolish if you analyzed and checked your beloved corpora numbers and contexts in further detail before posting such misleading information.
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Amy
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ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English |
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Yankee
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| Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:31 am "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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Thank you, Barb D, Amy and Mr. P for your replies !
Truly yours,
Alex |
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lost_soul
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| Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:39 am "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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| Quote: | | You'd look a lot less foolish if you analyzed and checked your beloved corpora numbers and contexts in further detail before posting such misleading information. |
Wow, what a lot of wasted words. We might have benifited more if you'd given us the "correct" figures. I'm learning all the time. You? I mean only two weeks ago you didn't even know how to use the two corpora I cite. I taught you how to search for contarctions, now you could teach me how to search "cannot". OK?
So what are the "real" scores? Simplified, these, right? If not, show me what I'm doing wrong. Thanks for any help in advance.
http://www.americancorpus.org/:
Regularised frequency: CAN NOT - 291.06 (in PM 1)
Regularised frequency: CANNOT - 0.15 (in PM 1)
http://corpus.byu.edu/bnc/:
Regularised frequency: CAN NOT - 418.87 (in PM 1)
Regularised frequency: CANNOT - 0 (in PM 1)
And what's your take on this:
| Quote: | can not - strong form
cannot - weaker form
can't - weakest form
All three can be found being used by certain native speakers in different contexts. |
An interesting take on things:
http://alexfiles.com/cannot.shtml |
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Molly
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| Wed Jun 18, 2008 15:16 pm "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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| Molly wrote: | | Wow, what a lot of wasted words. We might have benifitted more if you'd given us the "correct" figures. I'm learning all the time. You? I mean only two weeks ago you didn't even know how to use the two corpora I cite. I taught you how to search for contractions, now you could teach me how to search "cannot". OK? |
This is yet another example of Molly's typical condescending double talk. A few weeks ago it was you who criticized the fact that I questioned the "need" to split the word shan't in two in order to do a search for it in the corpora you so blindly love. Although I don't use the word shan't myself, even I know that when that word is written anywhere other than in a corpus search box, it is written as one word -- i.e. without a space in the middle.
Now, a few weeks later, you post wild scores supposedly proving the "correct" and/or "usual" spelling of the word cannot to be "can not" -- scores which apparently reflect little or nothing more than the very same "corpus search requirement" that you already knew about. To be perfectly honest, Molly, based on that, it would appear that your intent is only to mislead and deceive.
| Molly wrote: | | So what are the "real" scores? |
I'm not really interested in corpus "scores". But my native-speaker intuition tells me that your interpretation of the "scores" you posted is pure hogwash.
If you do a search for "can not" (2 words) in the BNC version that you apparently do not "approve" of, this is what you will find:
http://sara.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/saraWeb?qy=can+not
Note that the search above was for "can not" (2 words), but that ALL of the results are "cannot" (1 word).
So, if you want a "score", it would seem to make more sense to estimate "cannot" (rather than "can not") as being used basically 100% of the time. Golly, Molly! That's quite a discrepancy, isn't it?!
| Molly wrote: | | Simplified, these, right? |
Nope, I'd say that your latest attempt to mislead is also hogwash.
| Molly wrote: | | If not, show me what I'm doing wrong. Thanks for any help in advance. |
I told you in my first post that you need to look at and analyze your "scores" in more detail. Basically, what you're doing wrong is misusing and abusing the corpora -- seemingly for your own unsavory purposes. At your level of English competency, the "scores" you found should have set off all kinds of alarms in your head that something was hugely amiss. That alone should have prompted you to research the usage more carefully. Instead, you simply chose to post inappropriate scores. Why? Apparently so that you could condescendingly tell Prezbucky to go back to the drawing board, and attempt to mislead anyone else reading this thread.
| Molly wrote: | And what's your take on this:
| Quote: | can not - strong form
cannot - weaker form
can't - weakest form |
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Obviously, can not can be used as an emphatic form of cannot. You will also sometimes find it as a simple typo/misspelling of cannot -- just as Prezbucky mentioned. Can't is the standard contracted form of cannot.
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Amy
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Yankee
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| Wed Jun 18, 2008 21:03 pm "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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| Quote: | | This is yet another example of Molly's typical condescending double talk. |
Try this for condescending posting:
| Quote: | Or is it just that you do not understand how to use the corpora as well as you would like others to think you do?
You'd look a lot less foolish if you analyzed and checked your beloved corpora numbers and contexts in further detail before posting such misleading information. |
| Quote: | | Although I don't use the word shan't myself, even I know that when that word is written anywhere other than in a corpus search box, it is written as one word -- i.e. without a space in the middle. |
Not sure what that has to do with the way one has to search if using the BYU corpora.
| Quote: | | Now, a few weeks later, you post wild scores supposedly proving the "correct" and/or "usual" spelling of the word cannot to be "can not" |
Nice try, Amy, but it was not me who mentioned "correct usage". I merely tried to see if Prez' was correct in thinking that one would find "cannot" much more than "can not" in professional texts.
| Quote: | | scores which apparently reflect little or nothing more than the very same "corpus search requirement" that you already knew about. |
What on earth are you talking about, Amy?
| Quote: | | Apparently so that you could condescendingly tell Prezbucky to go back to the drawing board, and attempt to mislead anyone else reading this thread. |
Yawn! Have you been at the hard stuff today, Amy. Wrong side of the bed, etc? PMT? 
My post to Prez was light-hearted and in no way condescending. You're so like Jamie, you're always trying to score Brownie points from other posters and forever attempting to creat a Molly hate club. In short, Amy, it's pathetic behaviour. Does it give you pleasure? |
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Molly
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| Wed Jun 18, 2008 21:10 pm "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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Those corpus numbers baffle me. Authors seem to use to the traditional "cannot" con mas frecuencia than "can not".
but this is a dead horse, so I'll quit bitching. It's certainly not as important as world hunger or the proliferation of HIV.
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prezbucky
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| Wed Jun 18, 2008 21:30 pm "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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| Quote: | | Authors seem to use to the traditional "cannot" con mas frecuencia than "can not". |
But where does that "seem to" come from, Prez? |
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Molly
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| Wed Jun 18, 2008 21:43 pm "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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all the books I read, newspaper articles, magazine articles, etc.
-- professional writers
...which are privy to copy editors, so that tells you what copy editors think.
...though I don't mind your explanation that "can not" can be used when extreme emphasis is meant.
(though I'd like to see "not" in italics.) |
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prezbucky
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| Wed Jun 18, 2008 23:10 pm "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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This is what I get, when I search the BNC for "can not" (sic):
| Quote: | Results of your search
Your query was
can not
Here is a random selection of 50 solutions from the 21715 found...
A2G 112 In welcoming the crew, the Rajah Curry House in Liverpool 13 cannot have anticipated the battlefield of cables, cameras and kormas it was to become.
A6D 1697 As we shall see shortly, this is another point of identification between the different, one which suggests that the masculinities of any culture, black, Arab, or white, cannot be grossed up as always and only homophobic.
A6T 2193 The animals cannot always break through this, and they struggle away, pawing and moving in frustration, pawing and moving again.
ABE 3146 Clean air is an example of non-excludability: if some people incur costs to avoid pollution, those who do not pay cannot be excluded from the benefits.
ABP 63 He cannot interfere directly with the proceedings of the Common Law Courts; he cannot issue a new writ which will have much chance of being held good by those courts.
AD0 1100 If you cannot manage anything, you can always just enjoy a short break and plan a date and a strategy for the return to your exercise routine.
AHX 641 `;If parents cannot turn to the law to ensure that education authorities fulfil their obligations to every child in their care, then where else can they go?'; he said.
AMG 1673 Solitary feeding also has its cost, since the animal cannot then locate food by congregating at food sites discovered by others.
AMT 1173 As transcendent, God cannot be located, since location applies to what exists in the universe we know.
APM 1408 The pressure, the pressure , cannot crush me, it forces me to think.
etc.
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I can't imagine how M. missed it.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| Wed Jun 18, 2008 23:17 pm "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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| Quote: | | I can't imagine how M. missed it. |
Was it the BYU-BNC you searched? The same site I gave the link for? |
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Molly
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| Wed Jun 18, 2008 23:18 pm "However fast you..." vs "No matter how..." |
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Your links don't work.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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