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it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to...



 
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ESL Forum | English Vocabulary, Grammar and Idioms
knock wood v.s. knock on wood | Sentence "They elected her to be the president"?
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it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to... Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:15 am  it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to...		  
Hello, you all English gurus,

I have a question on a usage of prepositions. I made a sentence like below:

It’s unreasonable for you to make me wait for a hour!

One of my friends talked to me, however, it would be better to use 'of' instead of 'for'. In the 'school grammar'(the grammar we(Koreans) learned in school), 'of' is used in this kind of stuctured sentence when we want to talk about character. For example, 'It's very kind of you' 'It's very sweet of you to say so' etc. She said because the word 'unreasonable' is an adjective showing a kind of character, we should use 'of' instead of 'for'.

What do you think? I think the sentence I made is ok as it is. What's your choice: of or for?

Thank you in advance,
sweetpumpkin
sweetpumpkin
I'm here quite often ;-)


Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 104
Location: S.Korea
it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to... Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:59 am  it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to...		  
You and your friend are both right. With the word "unreasonable" you can use both "of" and "for" without any real difference in meaning.

But you can't use "for" with "kind" or "sweet".
Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4337
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to... Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:05 am  it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to...		  
Jamie (K) wrote:
With the word "unreasonable" you can use both "of" and "for" without any real difference in meaning.

But you can't use "for" with "kind" or "sweet".

First of all, Thank you for your answer, Jamie!!

Um... May I ask you why? Hmm. Does 'unreasonable' have any features which 'kind' 'sweet' dont' have? Are there other adjectives like 'unreasonable', which indicate a kind of character, but can be used with both 'for' and 'of'?

sweetpumpkin
sweetpumpkin
I'm here quite often ;-)


Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 104
Location: S.Korea
it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to... Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:09 am  it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to...		  
Jamie (K) wrote:
But you can't use "for" with "kind" or "sweet".

But what about:

For you to do this for me, is very kind/sweet.
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 3867
it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to... Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:07 am  it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to...		  
Quote:
For you to do this for me, is very kind/sweet.

Maybe because it's a different type of sentence?
I think, For you to do this for me is the Subject, but we don't have 'it's' in the sentence. However I always have problems with such type of sentence. Smile

And, sweetpumpkin, It’s unreasonable for you to make me wait for an hour! Smile
Inga
I'm here quite often ;-)


Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 214
Location: Minsk, Belarus
it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to... Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:25 am  it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to...		  
It reminds me of “BE KIND FOR EVERYONE YOU MEET IS FIGHTING A HARD BATTLE”.

Of course we need a comma between 'kind' and 'for'. I'm sorry, it's irrelevant to the subject. Smile
Haihao
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Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 1380
Location: Japan
it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to... Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:30 am  it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to...		  
[quote="Inga"]
Quote:
For you to do this for me, is very kind/sweet.

Maybe because it's a different type of sentence?
I think, For you to do this for me is the Subject, but we don't have 'it's' in the sentence. However I always have problems with such type of sentence. Smile

Yes, I see what you mean. The "for" in "For you to do this for me," is like "That you do this for me...", "Your doing this for me", and other such expressions.

So, we can also say "It’s unreasonable that you make me wait for a hour!" and ""It’s unreasonable making me wait for a hour!", and we can we also say "It's very sweet/kind that you help me...", so why is ""It's very sweet/kind for you to help me..." not acceptable?
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 3867
it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to... Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:12 am  it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to...		  
In my opinion, this is the meaning of the word 'unreasonable' in this particular sentence: It’s unreasonable for you to make me wait for an hour!
Though 'unreasonable' can characterize a person, it's seldom used to do it 'in general', mostly in particular situations. In this sentence it's not 'you', who was unreasonable, but your single action.
And 'It's very sweet/kind for you to help me...' sounds unnatural to me because it supposes that something good was done for 'you', not 'you' did this 'good'. Or it is not common for 'you' to do such kind things. Usually you are not so generous.

Sometimes it seems to me that the person who started the thread doesn't need such long explanation and is not interested in it. Smile
Inga
I'm here quite often ;-)


Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 214
Location: Minsk, Belarus
it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to... Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:20 am  it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to...		  
Quote:
In my opinion, this is the meaning of the word 'unreasonable' in this particular sentence: It’s unreasonable for you to make me wait for an hour!
Though 'unreasonable' can characterize a person, it's seldom used to do it 'in general', mostly in particular situations. In this sentence it's not 'you', who was unreasonable, but your single action.

I agree.

Quote:
Sometimes it seems to me that the person who started the thread doesn't need such long explanation and is not interested in it.

That's true, but we love extended threads, don't we? Wink And some students - I myself, for one - are not always happy with this kind of short answer:

Quote:
But you can't use "for" with "kind" or "sweet".
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 3867
it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to... Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:29 am  it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to...		  
Smile
_________________
I am an incurable optimist.
Inga
I'm here quite often ;-)


Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 214
Location: Minsk, Belarus
it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to... Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:22 pm  it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to...		  
Molly wrote:
Jamie (K) wrote:
But you can't use "for" with "kind" or "sweet".

But what about:

For you to do this for me, is very kind/sweet.

This apparently works only with a fronted prepositional phrase.
Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4337
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to... Fri Jun 20, 2008 13:22 pm  it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to...		  
Jamie (K) wrote:
For you to do this for me, is very kind/sweet.

This apparently works only with a fronted prepositional phrase.[/quote]

Hm, why do you think that is?
Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)


Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 3867
it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to... Sun Jun 22, 2008 16:58 pm  it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to...		  
Inga wrote:
And, sweetpumpkin, It’s unreasonable for you to make me wait for an hour! Smile

Oh, my god. It was a typo. Anyway, thank Inga for correcting it! Wink
sweetpumpkin
I'm here quite often ;-)


Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 104
Location: S.Korea
it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to... Sun Jun 22, 2008 17:08 pm  it's unreasonable for you to... vs. it's unreasonable of you to...		  
Inga wrote:
In my opinion, this is the meaning of the word 'unreasonable' in this particular sentence: It’s unreasonable for you to make me wait for an hour!
Though 'unreasonable' can characterize a person, it's seldom used to do it 'in general', mostly in particular situations. In this sentence it's not 'you', who was unreasonable, but your single action.
And 'It's very sweet/kind for you to help me...' sounds unnatural to me because it supposes that something good was done for 'you', not 'you' did this 'good'. Or it is not common for 'you' to do such kind things. Usually you are not so generous.

Okay, I got it! I've found your explanation very helpful and it made me think again about the character of prepositions and adjectives we've talk about. Thank you.

Quote:
Sometimes it seems to me that the person who started the thread doesn't need such long explanation and is not interested in it. Smile

Oh, yes! I'm interested in it and think your thought on the adjective 'unreasonable' is very reasonable. Wink
sweetpumpkin
I'm here quite often ;-)


Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 104
Location: S.Korea
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knock wood v.s. knock on wood | Sentence "They elected her to be the president"?
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