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 Tue Jul 01, 2008 23:50 pm What 'variant of English' would you learn? |
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| Molly wrote: | You may be surprised to know that not many native teachers want to live and work in Bilbao, or even in Madrid.
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I was interested by that statement; here and there on ESL sites I've come across comments such as this:
| Quote: | Most English academies in Madrid do not bother recruiting much outside of Spain, because they don’t have to. They may place ads on www.tefl.com or another EFL job site, but by the time your CV has reached their inbox, they’ve probably already had 10 English teachers drop off their CVs in person.
(From The Pain in Spain.)
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It seems to be a different point of view. What do you think? Is the blogger wrong? Or have things changed, since he wrote that post?
| Molly wrote: | They may want it, but they don't get it. It's cheaper for academies to use self-employed teachers and to offer temporary contracts. Now, why do you think that is? On the other had, it is sometimes better to offer full-time contracts to native teachers...Keeping one's teachers can be difficult. The more sweeteners, the better. Most nonnatives are not suddenly going to up and leave. Do you understand?
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On rereading the thread, I'm struck by the tone of this comment. It seems strikingly different from the faintly rueful (and more sympathetic) tone of e.g.
| Molly wrote: | ...there are perfect alternatives even at higher level learning. We call them non-native teachers...
...most would love to teach higher levels and are, IMO, fully capable of doing so...
The management board at the academy refuse to allow that 60% to teach higher levels, even though some of that 60% teach higher levels in other academies.
Such contexts are many in the world of ESL/EFL.
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The first post justifies the situation in pragmatic terms; the second set of comments presents it as an injustice.
What do you think?
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| Wed Jul 02, 2008 0:16 am What 'variant of English' would you learn? |
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| Quote: | Most English academies in Madrid do not bother recruiting much outside of Spain, because they don’t have to. They may place ads on www.tefl.com or another EFL job site, but by the time your CV has reached their inbox, they’ve probably already had 10 English teachers drop off their CVs in person.
(From The Pain in Spain.) |
It's incorrect. |
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Molly
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| Wed Jul 02, 2008 0:21 am What 'variant of English' would you learn? |
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| Quote: | | On rereading the thread, I'm struck by the tone of this comment. It seems strikingly different from the faintly rueful (and more sympathetic) tone of e.g. |
You play games as an amateur would, Mr P.
You asked me about the standpoint of management regarding nonnative teachers and full-time contracts. I explained that standpoint. I already said, many threads back, that I do not agree with the management's standpoint on nonnative teachers. My standpoint has not changed. Next? |
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Molly
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| Wed Jul 02, 2008 0:34 am What 'variant of English' would you learn? |
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| Molly wrote: | | You asked me about the standpoint of management regarding nonnative teachers and full-time contracts. |
Not exactly; I queried the standpoint of non-native teachers:
| MrPedantic wrote: | | Molly wrote: | As most of our nonnative teachers live with family or have a house of their own, and are in the main self-employed, the permanent contract is not offered.
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That sounds rather odd to me. 75% of the non-native speakers, most of whom have been with you for 7 to 8 years, don't want a permanent contract?
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And that query was justified, if non-native teachers "live with family" or are self-employed because the permanent contract is not offered.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| Wed Jul 02, 2008 0:41 am What 'variant of English' would you learn? |
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| Quote: | | MrPedantic wrote: | | Molly wrote: | | You asked me about the standpoint of management regarding nonnative teachers and full-time contracts. |
Not exactly; I queried the standpoint of non-native teachers: |
Mr P, read back on your own posts:
| Quote: | | If your husband owns or runs the academy, and if he thinks that most of the non-native teachers are capable of teaching at a higher level, why doesn't he permit them to do so? |
| Molly wrote: | As most of our nonnative teachers live with family or have a house of their own, and are in the main self-employed, the permanent contract is not offered.
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That sounds rather odd to me. 75% of the non-native speakers, most of whom have been with you for 7 to 8 years, don't want a permanent contract?
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Not sure where I said that, can you show me?
| Quote: | | And that query was justified, if non-native teachers "live with family" or are self-employed because the permanent contract is not offered. |
The case of living with one's family until one's early 30s is based on much more than being a nonnative teacher who cannot get a full-time contract, Mr P. Is it true that you know very little about Spanish society? |
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Molly
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| Wed Jul 02, 2008 0:52 am What 'variant of English' would you learn? |
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| Molly wrote: | | Not sure where I said that, can you show me? |
You've jumbled up your quote boxes again. If you adjust them, you'll see that those are my words, not yours.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:10 am What 'variant of English' would you learn? |
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| MrPedantic wrote: | | Molly wrote: | | Not sure where I said that, can you show me? |
You've jumbled up your quote boxes again. If you adjust them, you'll see that those are my words, not yours.
MrP |
Mr P
I said: | Quote: | | As most of our nonnative teachers live with family or have a house of their own, and are in the main self-employed, the permanent contract is not offered. |
You said: | Quote: | | That sounds rather odd to me. 75% of the non-native speakers, most of whom have been with you for 7 to 8 years, don't want a permanent contract? |
I asked you where I said that the nonnative teachers do not want a permanent contract. |
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Molly
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| Sat Jul 05, 2008 13:50 pm What 'variant of English' would you learn? |
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| Molly wrote: | I asked you where I said that the nonnative teachers do not want a permanent contract.
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Where did I say that you did?
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| Sun Jul 06, 2008 19:04 pm What 'variant of English' would you learn? |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: | | With CNN International, I don't think you'd learn any particular variant of English. You'd be getting a mixed input of US English, British English, German English, Bulgarian English and who knows what else. |
Hi Jamie,
What do you mean by "Bulgarian English"? Are you referring to Ralitsa Vassileva? If so, are you referring to her accent or to phrases and expressions she uses or both?
Many thanks,
Torsten
_________________
Test Of English for International Communication
TOEIC Preparation & TOEIC Vocabulary |
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Torsten
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| Sun Jul 06, 2008 22:55 pm What 'variant of English' would you learn? |
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| Quote: | | Are you referring to Ralitsa Vassileva? If so, are you referring to her accent or to phrases and expressions she uses or both? |
Probably to the fact that it took him a month to understand her English.  |
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Molly
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| Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:09 am What 'variant of English' would you learn? |
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By just following page 6-not the whole thread- J seems, he made his point. I mostly agree with his analysis maybe because I went through a similar experience.
| Quote: | | People who don't really care about what she's saying, or half listen to only a snippet, and are satisfied with catching only 90% of what she says will say there's no problem with her speech. But if one is paying close attention and is trying to get ALL of what she says, there are some problems. |
Replied to register in this thread...
-Kilani |
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fa_kilani
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| Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:17 am What 'variant of English' would you learn? |
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| Quote: | | But if one is paying close attention and is trying to get ALL of what she says, there are some problems. |
I'd say that "missing part" also goes for most of native speakers I've met. And many It's rare to get 100% of anyone's (spoken) message, isn't it? |
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Molly
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| Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:29 am What 'variant of English' would you learn? |
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| Quote: | I'd say that "missing part" also goes for most of native speakers I've met.
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That is the downside of communication, that you sometimes don´t get it all. This happens even between native speakers.
But I think it is also a tendency for listeners to be lazy and they don´t concentrate.
Likewise material, teachers and students ignore this essential skill at their peril. |
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stew.t.
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| Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:55 am What 'variant of English' would you learn? |
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| Quote: | | But I think it is also a tendency for listeners to be lazy and they don´t concentrate. |
I doubt it's just that. There's also: environmental interference, lack of familiarity with the subject, tiredness, difference in accents, etc. Putting the "blame" on the speaker is not fair or correct.
It's the same here. If one sometimes questions the meaning of a native-speaker's comments, many speakers blame the reader for not understanding. |
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Molly
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| Religious language and religious translation | Directness |
