Idiom: As black as Newgate's knocker

Haihao · Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:54 am *Idiom: As black as Newgate's knocker*

Hi,

Could I suppose "Newgate's knocker" in "As black as Newgate's knocker" is or was very black? Is this idiom still in circulation, say, in UK?

Thank you!

Haihao

Jamie (K) · Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:59 am *Idiom: As black as Newgate's knocker*

I've never heard it in my life, although of course I understand it. I'd just have no idea what Newgate's knocker is supposed to be.

An explanation of the term is here:
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/36500.html

Ralf · Mon Jun 23, 2008 18:02 pm *Idiom: As black as Newgate's knocker*

Barb_D · Mon Jun 23, 2008 19:38 pm *Idiom: As black as Newgate's knocker*

Now, see, I would have assumed it was the thing on the door that you raise and lower in order to knock. Isn't there a lot of coal there? Or am I thinking of New Castle? If I'm right about the coal, then their hands would be quite dark from handling the coal, so the things that were handled would be black too. Is that even remotely possible?

Yankee · Mon Jun 23, 2008 19:55 pm *Idiom: As black as Newgate's knocker*

Ralf · Mon Jun 23, 2008 20:17 pm *Idiom: As black as Newgate's knocker*

Yankee · Mon Jun 23, 2008 20:41 pm *Idiom: As black as Newgate's knocker*

Funny you should mention that, Ralf. We don't have a knocker or a doorbell. So, people literally have to knock directly on the door. That can sometimes be tough to hear, though. Fortunately, we have installed something even better than a knocker or a doorbell for alerting us that there are visitors at the door. It's known as a "dog". Mr. Green

.
_________________
Amy
.
ESL teacher, translator, and a native speaker of American English

Barb_D · Mon Jun 23, 2008 21:13 pm *Idiom: As black as Newgate's knocker*

Okay, well at least I had the right type of knocker and knew it wasn't a woman's boob!

I have found several models of "dog" to be an effective visitor detection device.

I like New Castle Brown Ale. DOes that count for anything?

Ralf · Mon Jun 23, 2008 22:13 pm *Idiom: As black as Newgate's knocker*

MrPedantic · Mon Jun 23, 2008 22:39 pm *Idiom: As black as Newgate's knocker*

"As black as Newgate's knocker" can still sometimes be heard in the UK; though mostly from people in their 70s or over, from the London area. Sometimes it's transformed into something like "Noogie's knocker"; it tends to turn up in a Cockney or East London accent.

I would say (tentatively) that "as black as N's k." can have implications of grimness; while its more popular rival "as black as the Ace of Spades" tends to refer only to colour.

A "Newgate knocker" was also a kind of lovelock, popular among street traders, etc. in the 19th century.

MrP

Ralf · Mon Jun 23, 2008 22:49 pm *Idiom: As black as Newgate's knocker*

Ralf · Mon Jun 23, 2008 22:59 pm *Idiom: As black as Newgate's knocker*

Haihao · Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:58 am *Idiom: As black as Newgate's knocker*

Thank you all!

Just a few more I would appreciate it if you could shed some light on:

1. As black as thunder. Is it because the sky becomes dark or black when a thunder is produced?
2. As black as your hat. What kind of hat? A cowboy's?

Thank you!

Haihao

Yankee · Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:10 am *Idiom: As black as Newgate's knocker*

Hi Haihao

Haihao · Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:52 am *Idiom: As black as Newgate's knocker*

Thank you Amy again, indeed.

	ESL Forum \| English Vocabulary, Grammar and Idioms	All times are GMT + 2 Hours Goto page 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2