The Greatest Nation

[Ralf]

You've guessed it, a student of mine who I meet for conversation classes went on a business trip to the States (Fargo, of all places - and he'd never even heard of the film!) and got himself into trouble. One night he walked into a pub, sat at the bar and got talking to some random guy over a beer. At some point of their conversation, the American guy came up with the phrase "We're the greatest nation", which my student interpreted to mean as much as 'geographically there is no country bigger than us'. He then objected and said "I think that Canada is much greater, but the greatest of all countries is Russia". The guy then turned away from my German friend and found himself another stool.

Of course I could explain why the guy sat somewhere else by explaining the difference between 'great' and 'big' or 'large', but I somehow failed to find words to convey the cultural dimension of the phrase. What could I have told him (or tell him next time I meet him)?
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[Yankee]

Hi Ralf

I think there was probably a combination of two things going on there. The first is that Americans are generally patriotic. It's a bit like being a fervent supporter of the home team.

However, I suspect the fact that the Fargo guy moved to another seat may have resulted from something more universally true (i.e. not specific to the US):
When you are a visitor, it is generally not advisable to criticize your host. Your student's remarks would have come off as a very direct disagreement and also as an impolite criticism. I saw this same sort of thing happen during my years in Germany. A foreigner who said something critical about Germany would often be viewed quite negatively by Germans -- even though the Germans might utter the very same criticisms of Germany among themselves.
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[Stew.t.]

Hi guys

I think the point Amy makes about criticism from outside is valid.

This I believe comes from the fact that the "outsider" is seen as not having the base for competent or well informed criticism.

However I think it also depends on the individual.

I remember having a storming and healthy argument with a German friend of mine when I was first in Leipzig concerning the "Iron Lady".
Unlike Ralf´s student he is fluent in English, so the disagreement was purely from perspective.
His girlfriend suggested he had no right to criticize my opinion of the politics of my own country. I saw it differently.

I also think it can depend on the subject. Politics is a safe (ish) area to discuss with me.
However anyone who blindly criticize the Rams (my football team) gets my goat , as did an Aussie observing my lesson this week.
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[Ralf]

[Lost_Soul]

[Yankee]

[Yankee]

Oh! I didn't click on your link to the conversation course until just a minute ago, Ralf.

So, it's that guy, is it? Though I think many or most Americans will make every attempt to understand someone who is making numerous errors in English, your guy may have been making just too many. The perceived insult that America was not "great" may have simply been the straw that finally broke the camel's back.
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[Molly]

I always find it strange when US Americans say to me "We are the greatest nation on earth". I feel like asking where, apart from on earth, we could find nations.

[Ralf]

[MrPedantic]

[Lost_Soul]

[Molly]

[Stew.t.]

Hi Ralf

Can you seriously take the notion of the greatness of Britain from the gutter press of the Sun? That is like taking the Bild newspaper and saying something similiar

You don´t really take this argument anywhere;

[Ralf]

Hi Stew,

For whatever reason you chose to interpret what I wrote the way you did is up to you. Maybe you should bear in mind what you wrote earlier.

[Stew.t.]

hi Ralf

An intention you do not declare in your observation. Of course my interpretation is down to me, but can there not lie anything in what you choose to write.

And as for my own comment, I am not saying you can not criticize the English, why would I. And your not a complete outsider if thats what you interpret from my comments. Can a Liverpool fan really be so?
What I said I bear in mind. But does not mean I can not question the statements made.

Showing different sides or observations is a part of debate, not anything to do with your perception of "pricked" national pride.

Maybe we all should bear in mind what we choose to write, and see possibilites of interpretation
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