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 #17 (permalink) Tue Jul 01, 2008 23:18 pm Do men use standard forms less that women do? |
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| Molly wrote: |
| Bring on more of Jamie's realatives. |
There you are. You do believe in them.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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Location: Southern England
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| #18 (permalink) Tue Jul 01, 2008 23:28 pm Do men use standard forms less that women do? |
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| MrPedantic wrote: |
| Molly wrote: |
| Bring on more of Jamie's realatives. |
There you are. You do believe in them.
MrP |
Not at all. I said it directly a long time ago, Mr P-ixelking. |
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Molly
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| #19 (permalink) Tue Jul 01, 2008 23:53 pm Do men use standard forms less that women do? |
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Hey, Jamie, would you say that the topics below are elementary questions from Linguistics Level 1?
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| Why has English become a "lingua franca"? What are the differences between American and British English? How do you define a native speaker? |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
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| #20 (permalink) Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:46 am Do men use standard forms less that women do? |
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| MrPedantic wrote: |
| Molly wrote: |
| If the discussion is going to involve you bringing out more relatives who are supposedly relevant to this and every discussion, I think I'd rather discuss with some one else. |
Bring on the dancing laptops...
MrP |
Bring on your pixels. |
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Molly
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| #21 (permalink) Wed Jul 02, 2008 14:19 pm Do men use standard forms less than women do? |
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Molly, forgive me --
Do men use standard forms less thaN women do?
_________________
Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee. |
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Prezbucky
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| #22 (permalink) Wed Jul 02, 2008 16:21 pm Do men use standard forms less than women do? |
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| Thanks. |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
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| #23 (permalink) Wed Jul 02, 2008 21:52 pm Do men use standard forms less than women do? |
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| Molly wrote: |
It has been suggested that men prefer vernacular forms because "they carry macho connotations of masculinity and toughness" (Holmes 2001).
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Does that also apply on forums, I wonder?
It would be a useful indicator, if so.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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Location: Southern England
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| #24 (permalink) Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:06 am Do men use standard forms less than women do? |
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| Quote: |
| Does that also apply on forums, I wonder? |
Often, where there's anonimity, both men and women may feel to use whatever form they wish. So, I don't think fora are a good place to look for indicators. On language fora, both male and female posters tend to stay away from vernacular forms. |
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Molly
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| #25 (permalink) Sat Jul 05, 2008 0:43 am Do men use standard forms less than women do? |
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| Molly wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Does that also apply on forums, I wonder? |
Often, where there's anonimity, both men and women may feel to use whatever form they wish. So, I don't think fora are a good place to look for indicators. On language fora, both male and female posters tend to stay away from vernacular forms. |
If the posters are anonymous, and there are no indicators, how do you know whether they're men or women?
And if you don't know whether they're men or women, how do you infer that "both men and women may feel [free] to use whatever form they wish"?
And if they "feel [free] to use whatever form they wish", how do they also manage to "stay away from vernacular forms"?
I think we should be told.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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Location: Southern England
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| #26 (permalink) Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:36 am Do men use standard forms less than women do? |
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| Quote: |
| And if you don't know whether they're men or women, how do you infer that "both men and women may feel [free] to use whatever form they wish"? |
Note the modal "may". I'm just guessing. If it's true that men "prefer" vernacular forms over standard forms, I imagine there's a lot of peer pressure involved in that "choice". On fora where one is not identified as a man or a woman, I imagine such peer pressure would not be noticable or would be non-existent. Is that an unreasonable assumption? |
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Molly
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| #27 (permalink) Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:38 pm Do men use standard forms less than women do? |
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| Molly wrote: |
| Quote: |
| And if you don't know whether they're men or women, how do you infer that "both men and women may feel [free] to use whatever form they wish"? |
Note the modal "may". I'm just guessing. If it's true that men "prefer" vernacular forms over standard forms, I imagine there's a lot of peer pressure involved in that "choice". On fora where one is not identified as a man or a woman, I imagine such peer pressure would not be noticable or would be non-existent. Is that an unreasonable assumption?
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Fair enough, as an inference from those three premises.
Accepting the first two (preference and peer pressure), for the sake of argument, how would the transition from "identifiable vernacular male" to "anonymous indeterminate standard speaker" work, in practice?
Do you see the vernacular forms as unwillingly preferred; so that they would simply fall away, as it were, and be replaced by standard forms?
| Molly wrote: |
Can you tell us why you think fora would be good indicators?
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My meaning was slightly different: that if it's true that males tend to prefer vernacular forms, vernacular forms would be a good indicator of male speakers on forums, whether their posts were "anonymous" or not.
All the best,
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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Location: Southern England
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| #28 (permalink) Sat Jul 05, 2008 18:24 pm Do men use standard forms less than women do? |
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Mr P, can you tell us why you think fora would be good indicators?
And what was your response to thread question? |
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Molly
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| #29 (permalink) Sat Jul 05, 2008 20:25 pm Do men use standard forms less than women do? |
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| Quote: |
| for the sake of argument, how would the transition from "identifiable vernacular male" to "anonymous indeterminate standard speaker" work, in practice? |
In the same way it works when my brother speaks in one way when in the company of his male friends or in front of girls he is attracted to and the way he speaks when having an interview for a job, I imagine. In the latter case, my brother sways between feeling no male peer pressure and knowing that he has to adjust his use for certain contexts. My brother is at home in both the vernacular and the standard forms, but he tends to use the vernacular much more when wanting to appear macho, when trying to pick up a girl, and when with his mates.
| Quote: |
| Do you see the vernacular forms as unwillingly preferred; |
It would be wrong to generalise, so I can't say for sure. Some of my brother's mates feel that the standard form sounds a bit effiminate, soppy, not the language of a real man, etc.
| Quote: |
| vernacular forms would be a good indicator of male speakers on forums, whether their posts were "anonymous" or not. |
Not really. One may prefer certain forms but also realise that such forms may not be welcome everywhere. Just because one prefers vernacular forms it doesn't follow that he isn't able to switch when the occassion arises. |
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Molly
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| #30 (permalink) Sat Jul 05, 2008 23:01 pm Do men use standard forms less than women do? |
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| Molly wrote: |
In the same way it works when my brother speaks in one way when in the company of his male friends or in front of girls he is attracted to and the way he speaks when having an interview for a job
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But an anonymous poster on a forum addresses "everyone". There is no equivalent of the absence of male friends.
(By the way, where there is a choice between posting anonymously on a forum and posting under a registered name, the anonymous posters tend to be more aggressive and abusive than the registered members. This is the reason why most forums feel the need to hold back anonymous posts until they can be checked.)
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It would be wrong to generalise, so I can't say for sure. Some of my brother's mates feel that the standard form sounds a bit effiminate, soppy, not the language of a real man, etc.
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What makes the standard form sound "effeminate" to certain people, in your view?
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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