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 Ralf
Language Coach
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 1564
Location: EU (Ireland and Germany)
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 #18 (permalink) Tue Jul 08, 2008 23:22 pm Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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Is this untrue?
"People who speak stigmatised dialects such as African American Vernacular English or Southern vernacular English continue to be rejected on the basis of their speech even when their dialects have nothing to do with their performance of job-related tasks and general competence. (Wolfram, W. 1993.)" |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
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| #19 (permalink) Tue Jul 08, 2008 23:25 pm Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Quote: |
| Don't want to get sidetracked. |
Fine, but your question seemed to imply that you have not come across legitimised dialect discrimination in the workplace. Is that true. Have you never come across it? |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
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| #20 (permalink) Tue Jul 08, 2008 23:34 pm Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Molly wrote: |
| Quote: |
| It's condescending to them not to obligate them to learn a more general means of communication. |
It might be condescending to expect they can't or do not want to learn such, but in no way is it condescending not to oblige them to learn such. |
"Such". |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 6552
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| #21 (permalink) Tue Jul 08, 2008 23:37 pm Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Ralf wrote: |
| Molly, I've been trying hard to follow both your questions and your intentions underlying this thread. What is it? |
All threads -- for months -- stem from the same thing. Molly is upset that native speakers get preference in jobs for language teachers, and he, she or it doesn't agree with that. It's an obsession, and all his/her/its threads are intended to "disprove" the legitimacy of the concept of "native speaker" and "standard English". |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 6552
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| #22 (permalink) Tue Jul 08, 2008 23:38 pm Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Molly wrote: |
Is this untrue?
"People who speak stigmatised dialects such as African American Vernacular English or Southern vernacular English continue to be rejected on the basis of their speech even when their dialects have nothing to do with their performance of job-related tasks and general competence. (Wolfram, W. 1993.)" |
Fine, but who decides whether the dialect has anything to do with performance of job-related tasks, Walt Wolfram? |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 6552
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| #23 (permalink) Tue Jul 08, 2008 23:43 pm Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| Fine, but who decides whether the dialect has anything to do with performance of job-related tasks, Walt Wolfram? |
Not at all. Employers should decide, but each must be ready to face questions about possible discrimination, right? |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
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| #24 (permalink) Tue Jul 08, 2008 23:46 pm Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Molly wrote: |
| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| Fine, but who decides whether the dialect has anything to do with performance of job-related tasks, Walt Wolfram? |
Not at all. Employers should decide, but each must be ready to face questions about possible discrimination, right? |
These questions are frequently posed by people who know little or nothing about the employer's business, and/or who are predisposed to taking frivolous discrimination complaints at face value. |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 6552
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| #25 (permalink) Tue Jul 08, 2008 23:48 pm Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| All threads -- for months -- stem from the same thing. Molly is upset that native speakers get preference in jobs for language teachers, and he, she or it doesn't agree with that. It's an obsession, and all his/her/its threads are intended to "disprove" the legitimacy of the concept of "native speaker" and "standard English". |
Back to your schoolboy-style defense Jamie? Either get involved or leave things alone. If you feel the going too tough, to personal, too close to home, go play in other threads. One thing is for sure, the native English speaking standardists here sure don't like being challenged, budged, pricked, by non-natives etc. Just look at the way you all jump and fidget when such threads as this one are posted.
Rally round boys! The non-natives are restless! |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
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| #26 (permalink) Tue Jul 08, 2008 23:50 pm Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Molly wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Do you have an example of "openly legitimised dialect discrimination"? |
If you don't, we've live in two very different worlds, Mr P. |
Put up or shut up.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Southern England
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| #27 (permalink) Tue Jul 08, 2008 23:51 pm Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Molly wrote: |
| Rally round boys! The non-natives are restless! |
There are no non-natives on this thread; though we do have a chap from Lancashire who likes to pretend such.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Southern England
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| #28 (permalink) Tue Jul 08, 2008 23:51 pm Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Quote: |
| These questions are frequently posed by people who know little or nothing about the employer's business, and/or who are predisposed to taking frivolous discrimination complaints at face value. |
Fine, Jamie, we've all seen how you like to play down every single incident of discrimination, be it sexual, racial, or other. |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
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| #29 (permalink) Tue Jul 08, 2008 23:52 pm Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| MrPedantic wrote: |
There are no non-natives on this thread; though we do have a chap from Lancashire who likes to pretend such.
MrP |
Your comment deserves one big yawwwnnn, Mr P. |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
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| #30 (permalink) Wed Jul 09, 2008 0:02 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Is it true that in New York City, there are numerous classes offered to New Yorkers who want to lose their "New Yorkese"? |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
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