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 Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:38 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Molly wrote: | | It is openly legitimised is on many langauge fora/ums. |
In that case, you should have no difficulty in providing one example.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:16 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| MrPedantic wrote: | In that case, you should have no difficulty in providing one example.
MrP |
Same question: why do you need one? Are you implying that situation doesn't exist? |
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Molly
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| Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:24 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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Examples for Mr P and Jamie to pull apart:
"She became aware of this discrimination against Belfast-English speakers early in her career.
For example, she once sat on a hiring panel in Belfast and interviewed a very qualified man who spoke Belfast English. But after the interview, her colleague said, “If he can’t be bothered to speak English, he doesn’t deserve the job.”
Henry was shocked: The job did not involve oral communication, and the man was clearly the most qualified applicant."
http://www.themuse.ca/view.php?aid=40645 |
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Molly
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Molly
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| Wed Jul 09, 2008 19:38 pm Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Quote: | She became aware of this discrimination against Belfast-English speakers early in her career
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| Molly wrote: | | Why is dialect discrimination (unlike sexual or ethnic discrimination) still openly legitimised in the workplace? |
"To legitimise" is "to make legal" or "to make legitimate".
In what sense does your example show that "dialect discrimination" is "openly legitimised in the workplace"?
Or did you simply mean "present in the workplace"?
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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Stew.t.
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| Wed Jul 09, 2008 23:38 pm Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Quote: | | In what sense does your example show that "dialect discrimination" is "openly legitimised in the workplace"? |
This was the part I was interested in, Mr P:
| Quote: | | For example, she once sat on a hiring panel in Belfast and interviewed a very qualified man who spoke Belfast English. But after the interview, her colleague said, “If he can’t be bothered to speak English, he doesn’t deserve the job.” |
As for your defintion of "legitimise", apart from "make legal" it also means "make acceptable". The latter meaning is the one I'm referring to.
Now I've answered your question, are you ready to answer mine?
Are you saying that dialect discrimination is not openly legitimised in the British or American (for example) workplace? |
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Molly
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| Thu Jul 10, 2008 0:33 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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Hello Stew,
| stew.t. wrote: | If an action is allowed in the workplace, purely from the point that it has not been "made illegal" could mean it is legitimised. 
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I wouldn't myself say that non-illegal actions are necessarily "openly legitimised", in the workplace. In most companies, for instance, if you were to discriminate against a candidate on the grounds of dialect usage, and then inform your HR department that you had done so, there would almost certainly be unwelcome consequences. I think it more likely that people would keep quiet about it, nowadays; they know they have to be circumspect. (Which demonstrates that it isn't "openly legitimised".)
It may have been different when the Belfast incident occurred; it was seemingly "early" in Henry's career.
All the best,
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:05 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Molly wrote: | | Are you saying that dialect discrimination is not openly legitimised in the British or American (for example) workplace? |
I would have assumed that dialect discrimination could be interpreted as discrimination on grounds of ethnic origin.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:14 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Quote: | | I wouldn't myself say that non-illegal actions are necessarily "openly legitimised", in the workplace. In most companies, for instance, if you were to discriminate against a candidate on the grounds of dialect usage, and then inform your HR department that you had done so, there would almost certainly be unwelcome consequences. |
And if you advised your colleagues about the same and your colleagues said "way to go!", or similar, could we say that they legitimised your action? You seem to reserve the word "legitimise" for higher authority.
(Which demonstrates that it isn't "openly legitimised".)
It doesn't demonstrate anything, apart from your assumptions.
| Quote: | | I think it more likely that people would keep quiet about it, nowadays; they know they have to be circumspect. |
So, for you, Mr P, dialect discrimination is done in secret, right? |
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Molly
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| Thu Jul 10, 2008 23:32 pm Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Molly wrote: | And if you advised your colleagues about the same and your colleagues said "way to go!", or similar, could we say that they legitimised your action?
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What does "the same" refer to, here?
| Molly wrote: | | So, for you, Mr P, dialect discrimination is done in secret, right? |
As I said earlier, I would have assumed that dialect discrimination could be interpreted as discrimination on grounds of ethnic origin.
Thus while dialect discrimination is likely to be present "in the workplace", in the UK, it is very unlikely to be "openly legitimised".
UK companies now tend to have fairly regimented recruitment procedures; HR depts are likely to provide templates for conducting interviews, advisory material on questions not to ask, etc. Moreover, unsuccessful candidates increasingly ask for "feedback" on their interviews; and whatever you tell them has to be verifiable in terms of documentation, etc.
Naturally, the smaller the organisation, the easier discrimination will be.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| Thu Jul 10, 2008 23:34 pm Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Quote: | | What does "the same" refer to, here? |
To discriminate against someone in a work environment. |
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Molly
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| Fri Jul 11, 2008 0:16 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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| Molly wrote: | | Quote: | | What does "the same" refer to, here? |
To discriminate against someone in a work environment. |
So:
| Quote: | "And if you advised your colleagues about [discriminating against someone in a work environment] and your colleagues said "way to go!", or similar, could we say that they legitimised your action?"
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"If I advised my colleagues that discrimination would have unwelcome consequences, and they said 'way to go!', could we say that they legitimised my action?"
Is that what you meant?
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:19 am Legitimising dialect discrimination |
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Let's make it easier for you:
| Quote: | | And if you told your work colleagues that you had discriminated against someone because of his/her dialect your colleagues responded with "way to go!", or similar, could we say that they legitimised your action? |
I think we are trying to understand your limitation on the use of "legitimise" here? |
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Molly
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