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Mister Micawber
Language Coach
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 4762
Location: Yokohama, Japan
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 Fri Jul 11, 2008 16:28 pm pail or bucket |
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| "Pail" and "bucket" are both ordinary words in American English. We use both. Why do you imagine an American teacher would mark a child down for using one or the other? |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4451
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Fri Jul 11, 2008 16:36 pm pail or bucket |
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I'm not quite sure what you mean either.
However, I'd be willing to go out on a limb and suggest that if a student were asked to say whether 'pail seats' or 'bucket seats' is a standard collocation, 'pail seats' would probably not be considered the best answer. 
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Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
Location: USA
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| Fri Jul 11, 2008 16:59 pm pail or bucket |
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| Yeah, and you cannot kick the pail if you know what I mean |
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Lost_Soul
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 1861
Location: South Park, Colorado, USA
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| Fri Jul 11, 2008 17:02 pm pail or bucket |
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| Mister Micawber wrote: | .
What do you mean by 'marked down'?
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Have a mark deducted. |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
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| Fri Jul 11, 2008 17:04 pm pail or bucket |
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| Quote: | | Why do you imagine an American teacher would mark a child down for using one or the other? |
Because of this:
Today a student in my class mentioned that her children lose points on
>> schoolwork because one vocabulary item that keeps coming up on tests and in
>> other teaching materials is "pail", and the word the children know,
>> "bucket", is marked as wrong. Of course we are all aware that it's been
>> established that the educational system's reaction to nonstandard linguistic
>> features sometimes doesn't fit the stated goals of testing, but this is the
>> first time I've heard of discrimination on the basis of *regional* features.
>> Does this happen often? If so, should we (or someone else) try to do
>> something about it?
listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0303a&L=ads-l&D=0&P=16974
See the whole discussion. |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
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| Fri Jul 11, 2008 17:10 pm pail or bucket |
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| There's something screwy about that, because "pail" and "bucket" are both standard American English, and we use them interchangeably. Neither one is a regionalism. |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4451
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Fri Jul 11, 2008 21:15 pm pail or bucket |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: | | There's something screwy about that, because "pail" and "bucket" are both standard American English, and we use them interchangeably. Neither one is a regionalism. |
I see. |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
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| Fri Jul 11, 2008 22:50 pm pail or bucket |
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My goodness! Imagine what the tabloids would do if they ever caught wind of Bucketgate!
Though Jamie lives roughly 700 miles away from me, Molly, 'pail' and 'bucket' are both just normal, everyday words in my area, too. And if you bother to read more of the link you yourself provided earlier, you will find others saying the same thing.
Perhaps you should have worded your original question this way:
| Quote: | | It has been claimed that someone's children lost points on schoolwork for using the word 'bucket' rather than 'pail'. Does anyone have any idea why this might have happened? |
IF the incident indeed ocurred, has it occurred to you that there could have been a reason other than your "dialect discrimination" for it? Perhaps the teacher simply wanted to expand the childrens' vocabulary. Last I heard, that's not generally considered to be a bad thing.
The fact is, your link provides almost no detail. Any discussion of "why" one particular teacher did what he or she supposedly did is purely conjecture.
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Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
Location: USA
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| Fri Jul 11, 2008 23:36 pm pail or bucket |
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I'd also like to go out on a lime to suggest some difference between the two words:
1. people say: a pail of milk; a dinner pail, but don't say: a bucket of milk; a dinner bucket, IMO
2. bucket can act as a verb; pail can't
3. pail can't take its place in "a drop in the bucket"; I'm sorry for this one. 
4. bucket has much more compound nouns or phrases such as: bucket and spade, bucket board, bucket brigade, bucket car, etc.; pail hasn't. |
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Haihao
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 1389
Location: Japan
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| Fri Jul 11, 2008 23:51 pm pail or bucket |
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Haihao, you go out on a LIMB, not on a LIME. A tree branch, not a fruit.
1. You can say "bucket of milk". I don't know what a dinner bucket is, but we say both "lunch pail" and "lunch bucket". In fact, the average blue-collar American is often called "Joe Lunch Bucket" when we discuss politics.
2. You're right, but I don't think they were talking about verbs in the example we were discussing. |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 4451
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Fri Jul 11, 2008 23:57 pm pail or bucket |
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I think 'pail' is giving way to 'bucket'. Does that help?
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_________________
Canadian-American native speaker
who teaches English for a living at Mister Micawber's
ESL cafe: Interview with Mister Micawber |
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Mister Micawber
Language Coach
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 4762
Location: Yokohama, Japan
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| Sat Jul 12, 2008 0:04 am pail or bucket |
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I wonder whether it used to be 'pail' in dear Liza's song, MM. 
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Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
Location: USA
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| Sat Jul 12, 2008 0:34 am pail or bucket |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: | Haihao, you go out on a LIMB, not on a LIME. A tree branch, not a fruit.
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OMG, I would be either pretty tiny or quite light were I on a lime! Sorry and thank you, Jamie.
| Mister Micawber wrote: | .
I think 'pail' is giving way to 'bucket'. Does that help?
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Very much convinced. |
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Haihao
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 1389
Location: Japan
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| meaning of "term extension" | what to say when wrong or made a mistake |
