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Stew.t.
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 550
Location: Leipzig, Germany
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 #18 (permalink) Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:35 am Prestige forms |
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hi all
I wouldn´t say that this accent is held in prestige, but for some time due to the success of films by Guy Ritchie, Cockney was seen as cool.
This is strange as for a long time Cockney was seen as a "low" form of English. If we hark back to "My Fair Lady". But I think this new trend was a fad. Especially as if you speak with an affected accent or put one on, it often sounds daft.
I had a problem that my attempts at Welsh after a few lines would strangely slip into Aussie.
It is quite interesting to think what vernacular accents are seen as "low" forms.
It is often Geordie or Scouse in England. The accent from Yorkshire, mainly rural, is either held in a strange kind of respect
(the four yorkshiremen; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Lb-2VaJYPw )
or seen as a "low" form.
What about your country, which vernacular is seen as a "low" version?
cheers stew.t.
_________________
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Stew.t.
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 550
Location: Leipzig, Germany
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| #19 (permalink) Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:29 am Prestige forms |
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| Alan wrote: |
Hi Stew,
It all started when Oxford admitted oiks like me into the 'dreaming spires' back in the 1950s. And if you listen to so-called BBC English today coming over the airwaves it is, thank goodness, what people are speaking all over. Gone are the days when newsreaders wore dinner jackets to read the news on radio! Honest!
Alan |
So it's no longer a prestige vernacular form, right? |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
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| #20 (permalink) Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:33 am Prestige forms |
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| Quote: |
| It is quite interesting to think what vernacular accents are seen as "low" forms. |
Not for me. I think there's been enough discussion on that over the years. I think people find it more "difficult" to talk about prestige forms beyond the standard forms.
| Quote: |
| What about your country, which vernacular is seen as a "low" version? |
Hard to say, as we have over 500 languages. As far as English is concerned, Nigerian Standard English (NSE) is the prestige form and Pidgin is seen as the "low" form. |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
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| #21 (permalink) Tue Jul 15, 2008 13:05 pm Prestige forms |
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Hi Molly
If you say something is cool, maybe you are saying it is "prestige".
It is interesting when you have an inverse in an opinion that goes from high to low or vice versa, like Cockney or the Saxon accent in Germany.
I find this intriguing; how times change the established opinion to the contrary.
_________________
Please meet Stewart Tunncilff |
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Stew.t.
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 550
Location: Leipzig, Germany
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| #22 (permalink) Tue Jul 15, 2008 13:30 pm Prestige forms |
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| Quote: |
| I find this intriguing; how times change the established opinion to the contrary. |
Whose established opinion are you talking about? |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
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| #23 (permalink) Tue Jul 15, 2008 14:54 pm Prestige forms |
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| stew.t. wrote: |
| the Saxon accent in Germany. |
The version of German known as Swabian also seems to be looked at as 'low' in many parts of Germany -- often even in Swabia. I met some Swabians who made it a point never to speak 'Swabian' at home (so that their kids would learn "high German"). On the other hand, I also met plenty of Swabians who didn't do this. Some Germans will tell you that speaking Swabian will make you sound like a farmer.
As a foreigner in living in Schwabenland, I found it necessary to understand Swabian, but not necessary to speak it. My Swabian friends used to find my attempts at speaking Schwaebisch quite amusing. I presume that's because I never did get some of the pronunciation quite "right", but I also think they simply found it amusingly unexpected to hear an American speaking Swabian.
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Yankee
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Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
Location: USA
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| #24 (permalink) Tue Jul 15, 2008 15:15 pm Prestige forms |
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| Quote: |
| Some Germans will tell you that speaking Swabian will make you sound like a farmer. |
Which may have prestige in some circles. |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
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| #25 (permalink) Tue Jul 15, 2008 15:34 pm Prestige forms |
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| Quote: |
I wouldn´t say that this accent is held in prestige, but for some time due to the success of films by Guy Ritchie, Cockney was seen as cool.
This is strange as for a long time Cockney was seen as a "low" form of English. If we hark back to "My Fair Lady". But I think this new trend was a fad. Especially as if you speak with an affected accent or put one on, it often sounds daft. |
Thanks. Your post led me to this:
It confirms your idea. |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
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| #26 (permalink) Tue Jul 15, 2008 15:35 pm Prestige forms |
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Whether or not that might have prestige in some circles I don't know. I was simply reporting a comment that I'd often heard. However, I can tell you that the people who typically made this 'farmer' comment did not view Schwaebisch as a prestigious form of German. As for me, however, I've always found Schwaebisch to be interesting and fun -- and also a challenge since there isn't much written in Swabian.
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Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
Location: USA
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| #27 (permalink) Tue Jul 15, 2008 15:36 pm Prestige forms |
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| Quote: |
| However, I can tell you that the people who typically made this 'farmer' comment did not view Schwaebisch as a prestigious form of German. |
I expect not.
Gell. |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
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| #28 (permalink) Tue Jul 15, 2008 17:09 pm Prestige forms |
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Odr au anderst, gelle? |
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Yankee
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 8265
Location: USA
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