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 Fri Jul 18, 2008 14:57 pm Obama speaks at the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin |
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i would think Berliners would be wary of welcoming a Communist into their midst.
hehe
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Prezbucky
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Ralf
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| Fri Jul 18, 2008 15:40 pm Obama speaks at the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin |
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| Ralf wrote: | | But how's Obamah a communist? Because he's left of the American centre? |
He's farther left than just left of the American center.
His platform consists of a lot of wealth redistribution schemes, including taxation plans that have no other purpose than to punish people who make money. He once said that he would raise the capital gains tax, and when it was pointed out by a journalist that raising that tax has actually been proven to DECREASE government revenues (because investors move their money into other things), he said that he would nonetheless do it for the sake of "fairness". He would also levy various new and increased taxes on income until a large segment of the US population would have to pay about 60% of their income in taxes to pay for his new government programs. Many of these wealth redistribution schemes have been tried in the US and in other countries, and they have been proven to damage the economy greatly. However, Obama still supports them on principle, without regard as to whether they have ever had a positive outcome.
Obama has another scheme that's right out of the old Soviet playbook, which is forced "volunteer" work for high school and college students. They would be coerced into "volunteering" for various sorts of governmental and government-approved programs. The way his scheme sounds, it wouldn't count if a kid spends a good deal of time teaching catechism or working in his church's food bank. He would have to choose from among party-approved activities. The whole plan is exactly like what I saw in the Soviet East Bloc.
This is just a sample of what makes people say he's a communist. There is more. |
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Jamie (K)
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| Fri Jul 18, 2008 15:41 pm Obama speaks at the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin |
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hehe
He's not a communist -- i was just teasing.
(though he is a liberal American Democrat... but still, in the grand scheme of things both American Repubs and American Democrats are Classical Liberals.)
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Prezbucky
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| Fri Jul 18, 2008 15:43 pm Obama speaks at the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin |
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| prezbucky wrote: | | He's not a communist -- i was just teasing. |
But a lot of what he wants to do has a Marxist tinge to it. That's why he gets so much support from the very far left. |
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Jamie (K)
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| Fri Jul 18, 2008 16:18 pm Obama speaks at the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin |
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yah
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| Fri Jul 18, 2008 21:40 pm Obama speaks at the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin |
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Did Obama happen to call himself any kind of pastry product? 
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| Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:30 am Obama speaks at the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin |
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| Ralf wrote: | | I'm not very adept in American politics (but interested). Could you give an example of America's far left? |
I'm not sure what you're asking for, but I'll try.
Remember that our moderate left is the European center.
The far left are generally baby-boomers from the hippie generation who for some reason haven't been "mugged by reality" and become advocates for capitalism and freedom. This generation was very heavily influenced by groups that were financed by the Soviet Union from the 1940s until 1989. They are generally for more and more socialism and confiscation of wealth from productive people for redistribution to various perceived victim groups. They perceive society almost entirely in terms of race and class divisions that often are either exaggerated or don't exist. They're against almost any use at all of the US military. They have successfully blocked any strategy for energy independence. After the fall of the USSR, communism was so discredited that they tended to move into environmentalism, but they're coming out of the woodwork again in a more general political guise. This group doesn't only include the old hippies, but also some younger people. People who have never had to work in the real world -- such as university students, professors and rich housewives -- have a greater tendency to have far left views than other people.
If you want me to label people, then I can tell you this:
-- Bill and Hillary Clinton are in the moderate left, as is senator Joe Liebermann.
-- Far left politicians would include Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the House of Representatives; and Harry Reid, the Senate majority leader.
-- Michael Moore, the comedian turned propagandist, is definitely to the far left.
-- Any organization in the US that's funded by George Soros is far left. The most prominent is MoveOn.org.
-- You can sample their philosophy at http://motherjones.com/
There are also some famous figures who used to be far left radicals and have since become conservatives. One is David Horowitz -- http://frontpagemag.com -- who, if I'm not mistaken, was a communist in the '60s. Another is the film critic and talk show host Michael Medved. Another communist who turned conservative is the famous economist Thomas Sowell. You can read Medved and Sowell at http://www.townhall.com/columnists/ |
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Jamie (K)
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| Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:27 am Obama speaks at the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin |
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Jamie!
What do you think would be the impact on outsourcing industry if Obama got elected?
He said he was against outsourcing during the campaign, but do you think he'll come down hard on it considering its widespread existence and the excessive dependence of some business units on it?
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| Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:55 pm Obama speaks at the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin |
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| daemon99 wrote: | What do you think would be the impact on outsourcing industry if Obama got elected?
He said he was against outsourcing during the campaign, but do you think he'll come down hard on it considering its widespread existence and the excessive dependence of some business units on it? |
A president can't do very much directly to stop outsourcing, but if he has a cooperative congress he can make a lot of trouble. He can cancel various free trade agreements, put taxes on various outsourced services and generally make outsourcing more difficult.
One important thing to know about Obama is that he is driven by ideology more than by pragmatism, and he doesn't seem to know much about economics -- even some basic facts. He is coming out against outsourcing because he wants the support of industrial labor unions that have seen a reduction in membership. What politicians like him seem to ignore is that there are MORE jobs outsourced INTO the United States than out of the country. The problem for the constituencies these politicians are trying to pander to is that the jobs imported to the US are mainly higher-end jobs that require more skills and education.
Usually the people who oppose outsourcing are automotive or other industrial workers who want a return to the days when someone with no skills could get a job, join a union and make almost $100,000 a year, but those days are over, and some of their children resist the education that would allow them to get the new jobs.
I'm not sure how much public support some of these anti-outsourcing initiatives would get. I assume a lot of the public will support them, but on an individual level, Americans are not as hostile to outsourcing as they used to be, at least as it plays out in their own lives. Five years ago, when the employees of Indian call centers were incompetent and hard to understand, Americans were angry about tech support jobs moving to India. Now the Indian employees are better trained and have had better language coaching, and I find that many of my friends are relieved to get a conscientious, sympathetic Indian employee on the phone, instead of an unconcerned, poorly paid, surly American. |
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Jamie (K)
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| Sat Jul 19, 2008 16:31 pm Obama speaks at the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin |
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| Quote: | | Obama has another scheme that's right out of the old Soviet playbook, which is forced "volunteer" work for high school and college students. They would be coerced into "volunteering" for various sorts of governmental and government-approved programs. The way his scheme sounds, it wouldn't count if a kid spends a good deal of time teaching catechism or working in his church's food bank. He would have to choose from among party-approved activities. The whole plan is exactly like what I saw in the Soviet East Bloc. |
You may be interested to know that such a policy has been first time introduced world wide by FDR and Mr Hitler both to fight recession and depression in their folks.
Kennedy had a similar project which was to attract spreading of democracy abroad by young Americans.
Mr Bush or Fed officials are now model Marxists according to history of socialists countries main factor of socialist economy was to credit everything by people savings and refuse to pay back them back due to high inflation.Americans have forced the interest rate below inflation about 2% and by printing more and more paper money finance deficit.
This is first and most important test of comunists orientation.
They officially stealing from any people used to keep their savings in normal bank account.
Jan[/quote] |
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| Sat Jul 19, 2008 18:02 pm Obama speaks at the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin |
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Jan, you're showing a typical East European's inability to comprehend the difference between government-coerced volunteerism and real volunteerism. East Europeans typically think that no one would work if they weren't either paid or forced, but in Western countries there is a lot of free work that people actually do voluntarily.
| Jan wrote: | | You may be interested to know that such a policy has been first time introduced world wide by FDR and Mr Hitler both to fight recession and depression in their folks. |
I don't know about Hitler's programs, but FDR's programs were not forced volunteer work or even volunteer work at all. They were job creation programs for public works, and the people got salaries. No one had to work in these programs if they didn't want to, and if a worker found a job in the private sector, he could quit to take the other job. Or he could quit for any reason.
| Jan wrote: | | Kennedy had a similar project which was to attract spreading of democracy abroad by young Americans. |
That program still exists. It's called the Peace Corps, the people get paid, and there's no obligation to join the program.
There is a world of difference between FDR's and JFK's programs and the Soviet programs, where people were forced to leave their workplaces and work unpaid for the betterment of socialism. In Romania I saw such people harvesting vegetables while a soldier with a machine gun stood over them. They weren't prisoners; they were "volunteers". This was not like Roosevelt's or Kennedy's programs.
There is also a world of difference between FDR's and JFK's schemes and what Obama is proposing. In Obama's plan, high school and college students would be FORCED to do unpaid work for the government or for some government-approved program. They could not choose whether or not to join, and they would be penalized if they didn't do their "service". This is Soviet style, not FDR or JFK style. |
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