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 Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:55 am Last month I couldn't make contact... |
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1. Yes, could be, IMO.
2. If he had made it, you would heve been safe -> he didn't make it.
If he did, you were safe -> not sure if he did or not, but sure if he did, you were safe. |
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Haihao
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| Sat Jul 19, 2008 15:57 pm Last month I couldn't make contact... |
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Hi Nessie
That looks to me like another test sentence that falls into the category "not the best test sentence ever written". 
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Yankee
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 Nessie
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| Sun Jul 20, 2008 13:31 pm Last month I couldn't make contact... |
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Hi Nessie
Your sentences are a little awkward to me, and with no further context, I also don't think it's possible to say what would be best or most logical in your second sentence.
As Haihao mentioned, if you begin your second sentence with "If he did", that would indicate that you don't yet know whether Peter did or didn't make contact.
If you begin your second sentence with "If he had", that would indicate that you know Peter did not make contact.
When you say "make contact", am I correct in assuming that you mean something like "get in touch by telephone", or do you mean something more like "make physical contact" (i.e. find, locate, meet)?
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Yankee
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| Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:46 am Last month I couldn't make contact... |
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| Yankee wrote: | Hi Nessie
Your sentences are a little awkward to me, and with no further context, I also don't think it's possible to say what would be best or most logical in your second sentence.
As Haihao mentioned, if you begin your second sentence with "If he did", that would indicate that you don't yet know whether Peter did or didn't make contact.
If you begin your second sentence with "If he had", that would indicate that you know Peter did not make contact.
Hi Amy,
First of all, let's have a look at my sentence again:
Last month I couldn't make contact with you, so I asked Peter to call you. If he (can), then you (be) safe and all right.
Now let me broaden the context to detailedly express my idea:
In this context there are 3 person: the speaker - Tom, the listener - Marry and another person - Peter.
Last month Tom couldn't make contact with Marry, so I thought of 2 possibilities:
1/ Marry was OK, but she was mad at him, so she wanted to ellude him.
2/ There was something wrong with Marry (for example, she was ill or had an accident), which prevent her from contacting him.
If it was for the first reason, then it was OK, but Tom just feared that it was for the 2nd reason. That's why he asked Peter to try contacting Marry. At that time he thought: "If Peter can contact her, then she's all right and I can set my mind at rest."
And so he did, and Peter really could make contact with Marry, so Tom knew it was just because Marry wanted to ellude him.
Now back to our problem, I just want to express Tom's idea in reported speech. If Peter couldn't contact Marry, then it's fairly easy as we can use type III, but actually Peter could, so I think we can't use type III (which is "past unreal")
That's what confuses me.
Thanks a lot and... I am terribly sorry for the long explanation 
When you say "make contact", am I correct in assuming that you mean something like "get in touch by telephone", or do you mean something more like "make physical contact" (i.e. find, locate, meet)?
Er... actually I mean any of them, Amy, do I understand the phrase correctly?
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A zillion thanks for everything!
Nessie.
_________________
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Nessie
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Nessie
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Nessie
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| Wed Jul 23, 2008 19:21 pm Last month I couldn't make contact... |
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Hi Nessie
Please reread my previous note that we do not know from the context whether Peter did or did not call. We do not know whether "Peter called" or "Peter did not call" is factual. The past fact is still unknown to us. Basically, you cannot use a Type 3 IF-sentence to refer to an unknown fact. A type 3 IF-sentence is counter-factual, and if you don't know what the past fact is, then you also cannot possibly know what is counter-factual.
There really isn't much in your original two sentences that would suggest or justify the use of a type 3 IF-sentence. Tom would use a type 3 IF-sentence only to talk about something that was counter-factual -- i.e. the opposite of a past event he already knew was a fact. For example, if you added a statement of fact about Peter's call before your IF-sentence, then you could easily use a type 3 IF-sentence afterwards:
Last month I couldn't make contact with you, so I asked Peter to call you. I understand he wasn't able to reach you either. If he had been able to reach you, then at least I would know (would have known) that you are (were) safe and sound.
Known fact: Peter did not reach you
Counter-factual: Peter reached you
With a type 2 IF-sentence, it is possible to talk theoretically about the past if you do not yet know what actually happened in the past.
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Yankee
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