About non-restrictive relative, "that"

[Sieger]

I recognize the fact that there are a little sentences with non-restrictive relative "that" as the following example;

1) That box, that had jewels in, was stolen.

We can substitute "which" for "that" as 2).

2) That box, which had jewels in, was stolen.

Please tell me some hidden subtle nuances in 1).

[Atomos]

I don't think "that" can be used after comma.
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"I would rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." Kurt Cobain

[Alan]

Hi,

You're right. You might like to look at some material I've written on relative pronouns for the site:

http://www.english-test.net/lessons/21/index.html
http://www.english-test.net/lessons/22/index.html
http://www.english-test.net/lessons/23/index.html

Alan
_________________
English as a Second Language
You can read my ESL story Present Simple

[Sieger]

Hello, Alan.
Thank you for your telling me your sites. I have already read the sites. I may feel the nuances different between which and that. :o

[Molly]

[Sieger]

Dear Molly
Thank you for citing the example. It seems very interesting for me. :o

[Molly]

[MrPedantic]

[Molly]

[MrPedantic]

[Sieger]

Dear MrPedantic

Thank you for your advice that the choice is stylistic. I have never heard about the Fowler. I have just known it is very famous as an English usage book. The following question occurs to me.
What on earth makes the copy editors choose the non-restrictive that?

[MrPedantic]

Hello Sieger,

Generally, non-restrictive "that" is changed to "which" by copy editors, in books and magazines. This makes it fairly unusual, in modern edited English. However, in unedited English (e.g. emails, memos, self-published texts, etc.) you will still encounter it. Some people simply seem to tend towards using it.

Best wishes,

MrP

[Yankee]

.
I think there is probably also a bit of a difference in usage between BE and AmE. It seems to me you're more likely to hear a defining usage of 'which' in BE than in AmE. And the example that Molly gave of the non-defining use of 'that' sounds odd to my American ears.
.
_________________
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln

[MrPedantic]

[Sieger]

Dear MrPedantic

I feel very sorry that you should change commas to dashes in the quotation. You look too pedantic. The non-restrictive that in the quotaition would sound odd for you, native speakers, since it is ungrammatical. But your oddness against non-restrictive that might make you feel something except "strange".

Sieger