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Thu Sep 04, 2008 0:44 am Ulysses (James Joyce) - A literary discussion |
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It was a good moment for the letter anecdote.
I particularly like this part of the book. I think we have to take it to the bridge:
| Quote: | Did he fall?
By his body's known weight of eleven stone and four pounds in avoirdupois measure, as certified by the graduated machine for periodical selfweighing in the premises of Francis Froedman, pharmaceutical chemist of 19 Frederick street, north, on the last feast of the Ascension, to wit, the twelfth day of May of the bissextile year one thousand nine hundred and four of the christian era (jewish era five thousand six hundred and sixtyfour, mohammadan era one thousand three hundred and twentytwo), golden number 5, epact 13, solar cycle 9, dominical letters C B, Roman indiction 2, Julian period 6617, MCMIV.
Did he rise uninjured by concussion? Regaining new stable equilibrium he rose uninjured though concussed by the impact, raised the latch of the area door by the exertion of force at its freely moving flange and by leverage of the first kind applied at its fulcrum, gained retarded access to the kitchen through the subadjacent scullery, ignited a lucifer match by friction, set free inflammable coal gas by turning on the ventcock, lit a high flame which, by regulating, he reduced to quiescent candescence and lit finally a portable candle.
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MrP |
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MrPedantic I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 1303 Location: Southern England
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Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:08 am Ulysses (James Joyce) - A literary discussion |
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Thank you all!
Here is another souvenir for you from my trip:
| Quote: | | a jug of brown crockery containing a naggin and a quarter of soured adulterated milk, converted by heat into water, acidulous serum and semisolidified curds, which added to the quantity subtracted for Mr Bloom's and Mrs Fleming's breakfasts, made one imperial pint, the total quantity originally delivered |
I think extremely speaking, here 'which' refers to the 'curds' which is added to 'the subtracted quantity' therefore not = 'the total quantity originally delivered' and not 'made one imperial pint'. Is it a picky idea or just misunderstanding?
Thank you!
Haihao |
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Haihao I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 26 Oct 2006 Posts: 1389 Location: Japan
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Thu Sep 04, 2008 19:46 pm Ulysses (James Joyce) - A literary discussion |
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Here's a riddle that may help you solve this problem:
The trees and the leaves outside, turned into brown and lifeless pieces of straw and paper in October, which made the forest look so stark, stood out against the setting sun. _________________ Test of English as a Foreign Language TOEFL Preparation & TOEFL Vocabulary Learn more: How to Become an English Teacher |
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Ralf Language Coach

Joined: 20 Apr 2006 Posts: 1485 Location: EU (Ireland and Germany)
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Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:30 am Ulysses (James Joyce) - A literary discussion |
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Thank you, Ralf. I got it.
There is another trifle:
| Quote: | | His attention was directed to them by his host jocosely, and he accepted them seriously as they drank in jocoserious silence Epps's massproduct, the creature cocoa. |
1. Could I see it as derived from 'creature comfort(s)'?
| Quote: | | fourthly, distraction resultant from compassion for Nelly Bouverist's non-intellectual, non-political, non-topical expression of countenance and concupiscence caused by Nelly Bouverist's revelations of white articles of non-intellectual, non-political, non-topical underclothing while she (Nelly Bouverist) was in the articles. |
2. Does the 1st 'articles' refer to underclothing and the 2nd to her some performance?
| Quote: | | sixthly, the rhymes, homophonous and cacophonous, associated with the names of the new lord mayor, Daniel Tallon, the new high sheriff, Thomas Pile and the new solicitorgeneral, Dunbar Plunket Barton. |
3. Which interpretation is closer to the original: both homophonous and cacophonous, or, homophonous or cacophonous?
| Quote: | | Because in middle youth he had often sat observing through a rondel of bossed glass of a multicoloured pane the spectacle offered with continual changes of the thoroughfare without, pedestrians, quadrupeds, velocipedes, vehicles, passing slowly, quickly, evenly, round and round and round the rim of a round and round precipitous globe. |
4. I suppose it refers to the earth. If so, how to understand 'a precipitous globe'? From a cosmic view?
| Quote: | | Bloom, only born male transubstantial heir of Rudolf Virag (subsequently Rudolph Bloom) of Szombathely, Vienna, Budapest, Milan, London and Dublin and of Ellen Higgins, second daughter of Julius Higgins (born Karoly) and Fanny Higgins (born Hegarty). Stephen, eldest surviving male consubstantial heir of Simon Dedalus of Cork and Dublin and of Mary, daughter of Richard and Christina Goulding (born Grier). |
5. I suppose they are semi-jeu-de-mots and the former alludes to the name change, the latter to S's brotherhood. Is that right?
Thank you!
Haihao |
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Haihao I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 26 Oct 2006 Posts: 1389 Location: Japan
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Fri Sep 05, 2008 23:45 pm Ulysses (James Joyce) - A literary discussion |
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Hello Haihao,
| Quote: | | His attention was directed to them by his host jocosely, and he accepted them seriously as they drank in jocoserious silence Epps's massproduct, the creature cocoa. |
1. Yes, "creature" as a jocular term for strong drink (esp. whisky) is a contraction of "creature comfort".
(Cf. the Irish phrase "a drop of the crater [creature]" for "a drop of whisky".)
| Quote: | | fourthly, distraction resultant from compassion for Nelly Bouverist's non-intellectual, non-political, non-topical expression of countenance and concupiscence caused by Nelly Bouverist's revelations of white articles of non-intellectual, non-political, non-topical underclothing while she (Nelly Bouverist) was in the articles. |
2. I think "in the articles" here would mean "still wearing the articles in question".
| Quote: | | sixthly, the rhymes, homophonous and cacophonous, associated with the names of the new lord mayor, Daniel Tallon, the new high sheriff, Thomas Pile and the new solicitorgeneral, Dunbar Plunket Barton. |
3. I would say "both homophonous and cacophonous"; but I may have missed JJ's implications here.
| Quote: | | Because in middle youth he had often sat observing through a rondel of bossed glass of a multicoloured pane the spectacle offered with continual changes of the thoroughfare without, pedestrians, quadrupeds, velocipedes, vehicles, passing slowly, quickly, evenly, round and round and round the rim of a round and round precipitous globe. |
4. I wonder whether it refers to the images of streetlife in the "rondel of bossed glass", where refraction causes a curiously rotatory effect.
| Quote: | | Bloom, only born male transubstantial heir of Rudolf Virag (subsequently Rudolph Bloom) of Szombathely, Vienna, Budapest, Milan, London and Dublin and of Ellen Higgins, second daughter of Julius Higgins (born Karoly) and Fanny Higgins (born Hegarty). Stephen, eldest surviving male consubstantial heir of Simon Dedalus of Cork and Dublin and of Mary, daughter of Richard and Christina Goulding (born Grier). |
5. I think so, yes. Thus Stephen is "consubstantial" ("of the same substance") because he is of the same religious substance as his parents; while Bloom is "transubstantial" because he is not (if I remember correctly).
There may also be a more general Eucharistic allusion behind these terms ("consubstantiality" relates to the presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and "transubstantiality" to the change the Eucharist undergoes).
There has already been some play with the "Father and Son" relationship between Bloom and Stephen; "only born male..." reminds me of the Biblical "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, etc."
(Are you still in the hills, or now descended?)
Best wishes,
MrP |
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MrPedantic I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 1303 Location: Southern England
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Sat Sep 06, 2008 0:02 am Ulysses (James Joyce) - A literary discussion |
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Hello MrP,
Thank you so much again for the wonderful paraphrasis, a welcome-back feast to me after descending from the hills!
Best regards,
Haihao |
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Haihao I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 26 Oct 2006 Posts: 1389 Location: Japan
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Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:01 am Ulysses (James Joyce) - A literary discussion |
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A trifle again:
| Quote: | | In what order of precedence, with what attendant ceremony was the exodus from the house of bondage to the wilderness of inhabitation effected? |
1. I am sure it's derived from the Bible. Does it mean: the wilderness where nobody dwells? But why effected? Does it mean 'actually'?
| Quote: | For what creature was the door of egress a door of ingress?
For a cat. |
2. I don't quite understand why for a cat the door of egress was a door of ingress.
Thank you!
Haihao |
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Haihao I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 26 Oct 2006 Posts: 1389 Location: Japan
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Sun Sep 07, 2008 13:06 pm Ulysses (James Joyce) - A literary discussion |
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Hello Haihao, good morning,
For #1: the "house of bondage" is Egypt/Bloom's; the reference is to the Exodus of the Jews under Moses from Egypt, and their subsequent wanderings in the "wilderness". A summary (perhaps over-detailed for these purposes) may be found here.
There is also a reference to Psalm CXIV (not CXIII, as the omniscient narrator mis-says), and possibly to a passage in Dante, Purg. II.
For #2: the cat entered (ingress) as Stephen left (egress).
All the best,
MrP
PS:
In "In what order of precedence, with what attendant ceremony was the exodus from the house of bondage to the wilderness of inhabitation effected", "effected" means "made to happen", i.e. "In what order...was [the emboldened part] made to happen?" |
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MrPedantic I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 1303 Location: Southern England
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Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:58 am Ulysses (James Joyce) - A literary discussion |
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Thank you, MrP, again. I am fully satisfied. Just another trifle:
| Quote: | | with attention, focussing his gaze on a large dull passive and a slender bright active: |
1. I guess the former refers to the piano and the latter to the splayfoot chair. If my guess is true, then passive because piano is an instrument 'passively' played by people but why active for a chair?
| Quote: | | repeating the words and antecedent act and perceiving through various channels of internal sensibility the consequent and concomitant tepid pleasant diffusion of gradual discolouration. |
2. Does this whole sentence refer to the 'antecedent act' between Bloom and Molly?
Thank you!
Haiaho |
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Haihao I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 26 Oct 2006 Posts: 1389 Location: Japan
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Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:10 am Ulysses (James Joyce) - A literary discussion |
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Hi Haihao,
I don't think he is addressing the chair and the piano in the paragraph 'With what sensations did Bloom contemplate in rotation these objects?' After 'elevating the candlestick' he elaborates on his sensory perceptions, so it seems likely that he simply describes what he can see; 'a large dull passive' - the darkness of the room, and 'a slender bright active' - the flickering candle. _________________ Test of English as a Foreign Language TOEFL Preparation & TOEFL Vocabulary Learn more: How to Become an English Teacher |
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Ralf Language Coach

Joined: 20 Apr 2006 Posts: 1485 Location: EU (Ireland and Germany)
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Tue Sep 09, 2008 0:24 am Ulysses (James Joyce) - A literary discussion |
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I'm not too sure about this one. The candle seems a natural contender for the "slender bright active"; but the splayfoot chair is described as "slender" and "bright". Perhaps Bloom's chair is appropriately the "dull passive", and Molly's the "bright active".
The "antecedent act" is also obscure; Bloom in this paragraph is reviewing the objects previously described, so "repeating the words" would seem to refer to the sheet music on the piano, and "gradual discolouration" to the "diffusing...discolouration" of the easychair; but there is no reason why an "act" should intervene. Unless he repeats the act of "feeling on his right temple a contused tumescence".
Best wishes,
MrP |
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MrPedantic I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 1303 Location: Southern England
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Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:33 pm Ulysses (James Joyce) - A literary discussion |
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| Thank you, Ralf and MrP. I had the same feeling as MrP's when I was led to the splayfoot chair as "bright active" by the foregoing description as "slender" and "bright" but I failed to determine the opposite "dull passive" on Bloom's chair, which I feel comfortable to suppose as it was. |
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Haihao I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 26 Oct 2006 Posts: 1389 Location: Japan
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Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:53 pm Ulysses (James Joyce) - A literary discussion |
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I have come across some other trifles:
| Quote: | | an old sandglass which rolled containing sand which rolled |
1. Does it mean: an old sandglass which turned around its containing sand which rolled and went down.?
| Quote: | | chest 28 in and 29 1/2 in, biceps 9 in and 10 in... |
2. biceps 9 inch and 10 inch because there are two arms but how can chest be 28 inch and 29 1/2 inch?
| Quote: | | the economy of mangling done on the premises |
3. On what premises the economy would be gained?
Thank you!
Haihao |
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Haihao I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 26 Oct 2006 Posts: 1389 Location: Japan
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Sat Sep 13, 2008 0:51 am Ulysses (James Joyce) - A literary discussion |
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Hello Haihao,
1. I think so, yes: the sandglass rolls, and as it does so, the sand within also rolls.
2. I think these must be Bloom's chest measurements before and after the 2 month's consecutive use of the pulley exerciser.
3. "Done on the premises" here means "at home". Seemingly, instead of taking his trousers to a professional laundress, Bloom gives them to Molly to wash. She puts them through a mangle; when dry, they are placed between the two mattresses; the weight of the two bodies presses them during the night. (It was once quite common to press trousers in this way.)
Best wishes,
MrP |
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MrPedantic I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 1303 Location: Southern England
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