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 Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:08 am "Girl" talk. |
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| NinaZara wrote: | I hope that's a good thing. 
And I was told American men are more in touch with their feminine side compared to other races, such as German. So that is also an important factor. |
I don't know about that. Americans are much more conservative in their thinking than Europeans, and by and large not as friendly to feminist ideas. In fact, the very ideal of the "average American male" is a very sexist, macho one, and men and women who act outside of the accepted gender roles are very often times ostracized.
Soooo no, I'd say that's wrong. |
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Taeglich
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| Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:19 am "Girl" talk. |
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YOW! 
For some reason you sound a lot like an American friend of mine, but of course I am always skeptical of the things he told me.
Perhaps there are differences in generations? Like, people in their 20's or 30's think less conservative than the ones in their 50's?
I take it you are an American? And welcome to ETN!
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NinaZara
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| Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:34 am "Girl" talk. |
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| NinaZara wrote: | YOW!
For some reason you sound a lot like an American friend of mine, but of course I am always skeptical of the things he told me.
Perhaps there are differences in generations? Like, people in their 20's or 30's think less conservative than the ones in their 50's?
I take it you are an American? And welcome to ETN! |
Yes, I am American, although I speak French and Spanish in addition to English (I'm geographically blessed in a sense..)
Anyhow, yes, there are differences between generations, but not the kinds of differences you might think. The actual views towards gender/sex don't change too terribly much, but they way they manifest themselves does. For example, older Americans are more likely to constantly bug their children about getting married, and single women are not looked upon as nicely. On the other hand, the younger generation, while generally being more liberal on things like single women or women in the work place, are more likely to openly insult things as being "gay" (degrading to homosexuals).
But yeah, in general gender roles are taken very seriously, as is the 'traditional family'. Religion is very, very oftentimes the justification or basis for these beliefs, and people who are nonreligious/nonchristian are oftentimes seen as outsiders or unwanted. Of course, this kind of thing happens elsewhere, but I find Europeans are much less likely to think like this, and in fact I know a lot of Europeans (rightly in my opinion) regard us as backwards because of it.
Geography is really what changes things, now that I think about it. In the North East, people tend to be more liberal, as well as on the west coast. People in the south and midwest are typically very religious and very traditional. Also, rural areas no matter where you are tend to be conservative, and urban areas tend to be more liberal (at least than the towns on the outskirts) |
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Taeglich
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| Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:57 am "Girl" talk. |
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I think the geographical factor is the same anywhere around the world. It is true here in Japan, it is also true back in my home country.
But ultimately, I think it really depends on the individual himself.
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NinaZara
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| Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:02 am "Girl" talk. |
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Yep, geography works in funny ways...
And yes, it is up to the individual in a certain sense. Then again, being raised in a backwards place by backwards people doesn't do much for teaching children to be open-minded and free-thinking... Ah well. |
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Taeglich
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| Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:16 am "Girl" talk. |
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I have heard from Indonesian friends that people who don't believe in God are unwanted in their community, they don't really care what religions you believe, as long as you believe in God. But I have never heard or ever thought that Americans are capable of thinking that. Really! Americans are getting more interesting to me.
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NinaZara
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| Fri Aug 15, 2008 13:23 pm "Girl" talk |
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| Quote: | | Religion is very, very oftentimes the justification or basis for these beliefs, and people who are nonreligious/nonchristian are oftentimes seen as outsiders or unwanted. |
Are you from the "Bible Belt", Taeglich?
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Yankee
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| Fri Aug 15, 2008 19:38 pm "Girl" talk |
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| Not FROM the Bible Belt,... |
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Taeglich
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| Fri Aug 15, 2008 19:46 pm "Girl" talk |
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Hi Taeglich
Well, where are you from then? 
I'm guessing it's not New England or any of the Mid-Atlantic states. Your comments on religion just sounded to me like a Bible Belt point of view.
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Yankee
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| Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:25 am "Girl" talk |
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Ah! Well, you're wrong  I'm from Maine. There's a lot of uneducated hicks here, but I am thankful it's not the south. People are more quiet about their biases.
However, I do live in Lewiston, which has in recent years become more populated with African Muslim refugees, mostly from Somalia. Given that we were probably 99% white before the influx of immigrants, you can only imagine the sorts of racist, anti-Muslim things I've heard, even from family members. Thankfully, things have gotten better recently. There is less white resistance to the Africans's presence
I did learn something very interesting though -- apparently there is a lot of INTERNAL racism amongst the Somalis. There are Somalis from the city, and Somalis from the country (Bantus), and apparently the ones from the city believe they are racially superior to the Bantus. It's still a problem here :
But yeah, not Bible Belt, although I can certainly see why you'd think so (looking back at what I posted). |
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Taeglich
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| Sun Aug 17, 2008 16:43 pm "Girl" talk |
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Hi Taeglich
Wow! Lewiston!?! That's just a hop, skip and a jump from me (around 250 miles).
Are you an ESL teacher there?
The unemployment rate among the Somali immigrants in Lewiston has reportedly remained stubbornly high. (I've read that it is around 50%.) Do you see an inability to communicate in English as the primary reason?
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Yankee
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| Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:32 am "Girl" talk |
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Oh my, no! I'm an 18 year old foreign language student (French, Spanish, Portuguese, German, etc.), that's all And that may be true about the Somali population -- it is undoubtedly true that the English language remains a barrier for them, but there are other considerations, for example the culture shock of having been taken from Africa after having lived their whole lives, and then put into another country thousands of miles away. I know a French African girl who told me that when she came to the United States, she was expecting sky scrapers and tons of lights and flashing signs, and basically just big city stuff. In her instance, she had just been in the United States for a few months, and although I did not hear her speak English, I do know it was at a very basic level -- certainly not enough to get by with any significant degree of ease.
There are free classes for Somali immigrants (and in fact all people, including a growing Hispanic population) who want/need to learn English. I know people take these courses, and I also know that there are a lot of Somalis are learning English, so perhaps in a couple years that unemployment rate will have decreased. They still need time to adjust, and the influx is ongoing so it's pretty much a neverending process
Here's an interesting statistic : in just a couple years, more than 50% of the students at the middle school will speak English as a foreign language (note that I didn't say *second* language, because some of them already speak 4, 5, 6+ languages.. pretty amazing!) |
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Taeglich
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| Mon Aug 18, 2008 14:35 pm "Girl" talk |
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| Taeglich wrote: | | Here's an interesting statistic : in just a couple years, more than 50% of the students at the middle school will speak English as a foreign language (note that I didn't say *second* language, because some of them already speak 4, 5, 6+ languages.. pretty amazing!) |
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Does that 50% also mean non-White? or non-American?
PS: 18 years old you said? Wah...so young. I feel like a grandmother now.
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NinaZara
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| Mon Aug 18, 2008 16:08 pm "Girl" talk |
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Hi Taeglich
I think this article (from 2005) is interesting:
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/03/13/Worldandnation/A_collision_of_cultur.shtml
Do you think the author portrayed the situation in Lewiston accurately?
| Quote: | | it is undoubtedly true that the English language remains a barrier for them, but there are other considerations, for example the culture shock |
My experience has been that "culture shock" is very dependent on the individual. Some people have much more trouble with it than others. Some people thrive on the "adventure" of the new culture. Some simply manage. And some are completely unable to deal with it at all.
I lived in Germany for a long time and I met a number of non-Germans who simply could not deal with German culture. Sometimes the difficulty was so great that the people simply gave up and left Germany. In my opinion, part of the problem was the fact that these people generally did not get involved with their German neighbors or German society.
I also met quite a few German families who moved to the US for a few years. Generally these relocations were a result of the husband being sent on 2 or 3 year job assignments. Although most of the time these "assignees" did well, not all of them did. The husband was immersed in English at work, and also had immediate social contact with American colleagues at the office. It was often the wife who had more trouble with the relocation. She did not have the same sort of "automatic" social contact with Americans.
| Quote: | | she was expecting sky scrapers and tons of lights and flashing signs, and basically just big city stuff. |
That's not terribly unusual. And it's amazing how many people outside the US believe that everything Hollywood dishes up is "real" and "typical".
| Quote: | | (note that I didn't say *second* language, because some of them already speak 4, 5, 6+ languages.. pretty amazing!) |
That is pretty darn amazing! It also seems to me that those would be the ones who will probably have the least amount of trouble learning English. |
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Yankee
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