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 #17 (permalink) Wed Jul 23, 2008 15:59 pm waste away |
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| stew.t. wrote: |
Hi Molly
Nothing, really.
I would more use "emptied", if I wanted to imply I want another drink. It is some guys round, so I say;
I´ve an empty glass, mate.
Or
I´ve emptied my glass , mate
And if used for the context suggested would more use finish off, but this could be personal nuances for contextual usage.
cheers stew.t. |
That makes sense. And do you agree with Ralf that "drink up" sounds odd in the past tense?
| Quote: |
Molly wrote:
Here, the particle expresses perfectivity:
Molly drank her wine up.
So here the particle really doesn't work:
*?Molly drank her wine up a bit.
Ralf wrote: Both examples for 'drink up' sound quite unnatural when used in the simple past. Use 'emptied'. |
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Molly
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| #18 (permalink) Wed Jul 23, 2008 16:53 pm waste away |
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| Molly wrote: |
| Quote: |
Really? So we'd have to write "Molly emptied her wine"?
That's what I said. |
Sounds a bit formal or literary.
| Quote: |
He drank up and left.
That's your new example. Nothing wrong with it. But it's different from your old one. |
Not if written in the "full" form:
He drank up his wine and left.
What is it that makes you say "He drank up and left" is OK, but not "He drank up his wine and left"? |
Please stop misquoting me. I commented on this quote of yours
| Molly wrote: |
| Molly drank her wine up. |
You this what you said is.
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 Ralf
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| #19 (permalink) Wed Jul 23, 2008 18:53 pm waste away |
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OK, Ralf, I'll try again. In which of these sentences does "drank up" sound odd and why?
"Molly drank up and left."
"Molly drank up her wine and left."
"Molly drank her wine up." |
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Molly
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| #20 (permalink) Wed Jul 23, 2008 18:56 pm waste away |
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| Molly wrote: |
OK, Ralf, I'll try again. In which of these sentences does "drank up" sound odd and why?
"Molly drank up and left."
"Molly drank up her wine and left."
"Molly drank her wine up." |
They're all odd. Molly never leaves.
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Ralf
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| #21 (permalink) Wed Jul 23, 2008 19:00 pm waste away |
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| Ralf wrote: |
| Molly wrote: |
OK, Ralf, I'll try again. In which of these sentences does "drank up" sound odd and why?
"Molly drank up and left."
"Molly drank up her wine and left."
"Molly drank her wine up." |
They're all odd. Molly never leaves. |
Sorry? Can you please explain? |
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Molly
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| #22 (permalink) Wed Jul 23, 2008 22:42 pm waste away |
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| Molly wrote: |
"Molly drank up and left."
"Molly drank up her wine and left."
"Molly drank her wine up."
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More to the point would be the difference between:
1. Drink up!
2. Drink!
— if uttered by the Brian-Blessed-esque landlord of the King George.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #23 (permalink) Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:11 am waste away |
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| MrPedantic wrote: |
More to the point would be the difference between:
1. Drink up!
2. Drink!
— if uttered by the Brian-Blessed-esque landlord of the King George.
MrP |
Why is that more to the point? |
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Molly
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| #24 (permalink) Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:32 am waste away |
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Hi Molly
There is a difference between drink and drink up. The latter being to finish off your beverage.
Maybe this is the point MR P is poking this thread at ; )
Just a thought!
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Stew.t.
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| #25 (permalink) Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:45 am waste away |
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| Quote: |
| Maybe this is the point MR P is poking this thread at ; ) |
I'm sure, but why? MrP knows I've already spoken about that difference, but what is behind Ralf's rejection of "drank up", above?
And one of the points, in the thread I posted, was to ask about the function of the particles in these expressions and the effects of context upon them:
waste away
drink up |
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Molly
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| #26 (permalink) Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:48 am waste away |
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| Quote: |
Note:
1. ???She wasted for a few weeks until he returned.
2. ???He wasted in just a few weeks. It was a sad loss to the world of football. |
Why the questions markssss? What has your comment got to do with wasted away in each of these?
She wasted away for a few weeks until he returned.
He wasted away in just a few weeks. It was a sad loss to the world of football.
If the particle "away" is used to signal "end, totality, perfectivity, etc., what makes it OK for use in "She wasted away for a few weeks until he returned."? |
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Molly
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| #27 (permalink) Fri Jul 25, 2008 0:03 am waste away |
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| Molly wrote: |
If the particle "away" is used to signal "end, totality, perfectivity, etc., what makes it OK for use in "She wasted away for a few weeks until he returned."?
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It's "ok" as a paradoxical or humorous usage: "for a few weeks" adds a note of bathos to "wasted away". Cf. however this "normal" usage:
1. She was wasting away; but then he returned.
The action of "wasting away" was still in progress, and could be interrupted by his return.
By the way, the fact that "away" may sometimes be used to signal "completion", etc., doesn't mean that "away" is always used to signal "completion", etc.
Moreover, the relation between "drink up" and "drink" is not the same as the relation between "waste away" and "waste"; this use of the latter, though probably sound from a lexicographer's point of view, would seem strange to most people:
2. She wasted for a few weeks until he returned.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #28 (permalink) Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:24 am waste away |
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| Quote: |
It's "ok" as a paradoxical or humorous usage: "for a few weeks" adds a note of bathos to "wasted away". Cf. however this "normal" usage:
1. She was wasting away; but then he returned. |
I don't see the paradoxical or humorous usage. To me, it seems that "wasted away for a few weeks" does the same job as "was wasting away", i.e. both express an action in progress, incomplete. The action in progress was halted in both cases by the return of someone.
| Quote: |
| By the way, the fact that "away" may sometimes be used to signal "completion", etc., doesn't mean that "away" is always used to signal "completion", etc. |
Of course, particles can be telic or atelic, I know that, but what makes a telic particle atelic and vice versa?
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Moreover, the relation between "drink up" and "drink" is not the same as the relation between "waste away" and "waste"; this use of the latter, though probably sound from a lexicographer's point of view, would seem strange to most people:
2. She wasted for a few weeks until he returned. |
Maybe so, but isn't the "drank" in the first example different from that of the second?
She drank for a few weeks until he returned.
She drank up everything for a few weeks until he returned.
Those examples also have nothing to do with the addition or omission of a particle.
......................
And how about "She declined/degenerated for a few weeks until he returned.". That would be OK, right? |
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Molly
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| #29 (permalink) Fri Jul 25, 2008 22:20 pm waste away |
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| Molly wrote: |
I don't see the paradoxical or humorous usage.
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Well, it's there.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| sides of a cube | About non-restrictive relative, "that" |
