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 Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:34 am They forgot one Plug here - Is this correct? |
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What is a 'plug'?
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Mister Micawber
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| Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:50 am They forgot one Plug here - Is this correct? |
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| Mister Micawber wrote: | .
What is a 'plug'?
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I am sorry, it is an electrical object. But, it would be any thing - "Book" or "Pen". |
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Sureshvemuri
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| Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:30 am They forgot one Plug here - Is this correct? |
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None of your sentences requires present perfect, at least from the context you have supplied; these are all OK:
They forgot one Plug here.
Somebody forgot a Plug in the room.
"They forgot one Plug here."
As you said, present prefect normally expresses a past event (or non-event-- 'the parade hasn't started yet') which in some way impacts upon Now.
"Oh, look!-- They've just forgotten another plug!" The impact-on-Now here is that this forgetting of plugs may continue now and into the future.
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| Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:53 am They forgot one Plug here - Is this correct? |
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Hi Sureshvemuri,
To develop further this difference between Present Perfect and Past Simple, I'd like to give an example.
Imagine that you are coming up to the front door of your house with someone and you realise that your key is not in your pocket, you could say: Oh dear, I've forgotten my key.
When you describe this situation later, you could use the narrative tense (Past Simple) and say: I forgot my key last night and had to phone my son to bring me
his Key.
Alan
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| Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:00 am They forgot one Plug here - Is this correct? |
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| Alan wrote: | Hi Sureshvemuri,
To develop further this difference between Present Perfect and Past Simple, I'd like to give an example.
Imagine that you are coming up to the front door of your house with someone and you realise that your key is not in your pocket, you could say: Oh dear, I've forgotten my key.
When you describe this situation later, you could use the narrative tense (Past Simple) and say: I forgot my key last night and had to phone my son to bring me
his Key.
Alan |
Thank you Alan and Mister Micawber for your time and help! |
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Sureshvemuri
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| Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:29 am They forgot one Plug here - Is this correct? |
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| Alan wrote: | Hi Sureshvemuri,
To develop further this difference between Present Perfect and Past Simple, I'd like to give an example.
Imagine that you are coming up to the front door of your house with someone and you realise that your key is not in your pocket, you could say: Oh dear, I've forgotten my key.
When you describe this situation later, you could use the narrative tense (Past Simple) and say: I forgot my key last night and had to phone my son to bring me
his Key.
Alan |
Could the past simple be used in AmEng in your first example? I think, even in BrEng, the past could be used there, right?
For example, adding to Alan's example:
Imagine that you are coming up to the front door of your house with someone and you realise that your key is not in your pocket, you could say both: Oh dear, I've forgotten my key or I forgot my key, couldn't you?
Edited, due to Alan's comments below. |
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Molly
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| Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:35 am They forgot one Plug here - Is this correct? |
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| Quote: | | As you said, present prefect normally expresses a past event (or non-event-- 'the parade hasn't started yet') which in some way impacts upon Now. |
Could that also explain the past simple, AmEng use, of "Did you eat yet"? |
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Molly
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| Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:49 am They forgot one Plug here - Is this correct? |
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Hi Molly,
I don't know why you constantly put chunks of what has already been given in another post into your replies. If you must do this, don't please add bits of your own in the 'quote' as you have just done above.
Alan
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| Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:58 am They forgot one Plug here - Is this correct? |
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Hi Sureshiverumi & Molly
The general theory is that AE uses less present perfect than BrE English, and this could be down to simplifying the tense system or helping the German immigrants when the country and language was being formed
However although common as it is that Brits use more present perfect, both Americans and Brits will use the tense forms consciously or subconsciously in the way that is supposed to be attributed to the other.
But "Have you eaten?" , "Did you eat yet?" can be given as examples of yardsticks for AE and BrE respectively.
Maybe with the varnish wearing off ; )
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Stew.t.
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| Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:39 am They forgot one Plug here - Is this correct? |
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| Quote: | | I don't know why you constantly put chunks of what has already been given in another post into your replies. If you must do this, don't please add bits of your own in the 'quote' as you have just done above. |
Why? I was asking if one could add to your statement, if one could use the same context for both the past simple and the present perfect. Anyway, I've now edited that post. Is it OK now? |
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Molly
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| Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:46 am They forgot one Plug here - Is this correct? |
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| Quote: | | However although common as it is that Brits use more present perfect, both Americans and Brits will use the tense forms consciously or subconsciously in the way that is supposed to be attributed to the other. |
Thanks. And would you say that the past simple could also be chosen by, BrEng speakers, in "Alan's" context here:
| Quote: | | Imagine that you are coming up to the front door of your house with someone and you realise that your key is not in your pocket, you could say: Oh dear, I've forgotten my key. |
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Molly
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| Thu Jul 24, 2008 14:38 pm They forgot one Plug here - Is this correct? |
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| Alan wrote: | | Imagine that you are coming up to the front door of your house with someone and you realise that your key is not in your pocket, you could say: Oh dear, I've forgotten my key. |
I would expect the simple past tense to be used by an American in the situation described above. Though the present perfect might possibly be used by an American speaker in such a situation, I would expect that to be much more the exception than the rule. I would say that this simply has to do with the American preference (or habit, if you will) to view specific and unquestionably finished past acts simply as being finished. In other words, this particular instance of 'not putting the key in my pocket' is clearly finished and cannot possibly continue or change. Clearly, this specific incidence of 'forgetting (to put the key in your pocket)' is also finished, and this specific act of forgetting cannot change or continue either. The fact that this past act might also have a so-called 'effect or impact on the present' is clear in the context. Nobody needs the present perfect to tell them that.
I would suggest that an American is more likely to use a perfect form (in the situation described above) if the sentence is worded this way, for example:
- "I seem to have forgotten my key."
| Stew wrote: | | The general theory is that AE uses less present perfect than BrE English, and this could be down to simplifying the tense system or helping the German immigrants when the country and language was being founded. |
I would suggest that this has nothing whatsoever to do with "simplifying" the tense system. And, sorry Stew, but suggesting that Americans use the simple past tense more often than the present perfect in order to "help the German immigrants" is complete and utter rubbish, in my opinion. Did you get that theory from a German? 
Have you ever heard the Swabians (Germans from southwest Germany) speak German, for example? They hardly ever use the simple past tense when speaking their own language. Have you ever heard a Swabian ESLer speak English? As soon as they start learning the present perfect, they tend to develop a marked tendency to massively over-use the English present perfect. And when I say 'over-use', I mean that they tend to want to use the present perfect in English to such an extent that they practically forget the simple past tense and end up mis-using the present perfect.
It seems to me that this Swabian over-use of the present perfect in English is probably mainly a reflection of their own use of German. Having to use the simple past tense in English only appears to make life much more difficult for Swabian ESLers. 
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| Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:38 am They forgot one Plug here - Is this correct? |
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Hi Molly
As I said Brits and Americans interchange these tenses.
This can be down to many reasons. Colloquial or regional differences, association with family roots, laziness breeding inconsistency and a possible Americanisation or Britisation.
But Alans example is common place usage. the ave, I´ve is common place in spoken British English.
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| Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:38 am They forgot one Plug here - Is this correct? |
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Hi Molly
As I said Brits and Americans interchange these tenses.
This can be down to many reasons. Colloquial or regional differences, association with family roots, laziness breeding inconsistency and a possible Americanisation or Britisation.
But Alans example is common place usage. the ave, I´ve is common place in spoken British English.
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