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 #32 (permalink) Fri Aug 29, 2008 16:35 pm Why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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| Alan wrote: |
| Confucius he says: If you don't like the programme, switch off the TV. |
Confucius born in the days before viewer feedback? |
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Molly
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| #33 (permalink) Fri Aug 29, 2008 22:24 pm Why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| Alan wrote: |
| Confucius he says: If you don't like the programme, switch off the TV. |
Have you repaired that faulty test yet, Alan? |
Nope. English-test.net seems to have chosen to turn off the TV rather than to eliminate the errors in the dumb vs. stupid test or the have to vs. will have to test. Those tests have not been corrected.
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Yankee
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| #34 (permalink) Sat Aug 30, 2008 0:29 am why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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| Molly wrote: |
Would you call that a qualified source?
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It contains of-tenist utterances.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #35 (permalink) Sat Aug 30, 2008 2:30 am Why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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Hi Guys,
Just to say thank you very much for answering my question which i think makes a problem here.
Sorry to all, |
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 Najlaa
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| #36 (permalink) Sat Aug 30, 2008 2:33 am Why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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Najlaa --
You are NOT the problem! There is another person on the forum who nitpicks everyone's sensible responses. He or she has been doing this for a very long time. You did not cause any problem at all. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #37 (permalink) Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:15 am Why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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I agree. It was a perfectly reasonable question, Najlaa.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #38 (permalink) Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:46 am Why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
Najlaa --
You are NOT the problem! There is another person on the forum who nitpicks everyone's sensible responses. He or she has been doing this for a very long time. You did not cause any problem at all. |
Would you that I agree with your every statement, Jamie? I've had my fill of poorly thought out native-speaker replies to language use questions. Many such replies are based on popular myth or, more often than not, on prescriptivists' dreams and have no bearing in the world of linguistics or in that of day-to-day usage. |
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Molly
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| #39 (permalink) Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:56 am Why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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| Najlaa wrote: |
Hi Guys,
Just to say thank you very much for answering my question which i think makes a problem here.
Sorry to all, |
As Jamie says, you are not the problem. The question itself brings out differences in opinion and variation in stance. Seems some people here don't like that fact. |
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Molly
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| #40 (permalink) Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:00 pm Why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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I'm sure I've posted my fair share of poorly thought-out replies, M; but I don't understand your doubts in this instance.
Where this question is discussed on ESL forums, you will often find strongly worded objections to the pronunciation "of-ten", but seldom to "offen", as the threads I mentioned show.
You can also find historic objections. Thus (if I remember correctly) Fowler in the 1926 edition calls "of-ten" semi-literate.
If you are an ESL student, it is as well to be aware of these mild shibboleths.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #41 (permalink) Sat Aug 30, 2008 14:59 pm Why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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| Quote: |
| Where this question is discussed on ESL forums, you will often find strongly worded objections to the pronunciation "of-ten", but seldom to "offen", as the threads I mentioned show. |
Yes, the strongly worded objections seem to come from similar minds. My question is why one would suggest that one should placate such minds by cowing to THEIR idea of pronuciation. It seems that the ones making such suggestions are of the "similar minds" group, i.e. the ones who wish us all to say "offen". Just another example of covert prescriptivism, IMO. |
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Molly
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| #42 (permalink) Sat Aug 30, 2008 15:12 pm Why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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Usually, we want people to take note of what we say, not how we say it.
So where two verbal options exist, one of which irritates some people, the other of which irritates no one, it makes sense to choose the non-irritant option.
The exception is where you prefer to draw attention to your manner of speech; perhaps to make a point, or to provoke the irritatees.
On such occasions, of course, you can be as irritating as you want.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #43 (permalink) Sat Aug 30, 2008 15:28 pm Why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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| Quote: |
| the other of which irritates no one |
Not sure where you get that from. Where do you get it from?
And,if we were all to go by going by your "it makes sense to choose the non-irritant option" we'd end up with only one way of pronoucing everything, right? Why would you wish that upon us?
| Quote: |
| The exception is where you prefer to draw attention to your manner of speech; perhaps to make a point, or to provoke the irritatees. |
I think you'll find there are often more exceptions than that narrowly stated view allows for. |
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Molly
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| #44 (permalink) Sat Aug 30, 2008 16:07 pm Why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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| Molly wrote: |
Not sure where you get that from. Where do you get it from?
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Change it, if you like: "So where two options exist, one of which irritates more people than the other, it makes sense to choose the less irritant option".
| Molly wrote: |
And,if we were all to go by going by your "it makes sense to choose the non-irritant option" we'd end up with only one way of pronoucing everything, right?
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You're looking at this from a native speaker's point of view. Don't forget that the context here is ESL usage. The vast majority of those who speak language X as a foreign language simply want to speak X in a comprehensible and effective way. From their point of view, language X can look after itself. Their usage won't make much difference.
Besides, there are only a few such cases.
| Quote: |
| I think you'll find there are often more exceptions than that narrowly stated view allows for. |
Which exceptions do you have in mind?
(With apologies to those who dislike multiple quote boxes. Sometimes they're necessary.)
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #45 (permalink) Sat Aug 30, 2008 17:00 pm Why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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| Molly wrote: |
And,if we were all to go by going by your "it makes sense to choose the non-irritant option" we'd end up with only one way of pronoucing everything, right? Why would you wish that upon us?
| Quote: |
| The exception is where you prefer to draw attention to your manner of speech; perhaps to make a point, or to provoke the irritatees. |
I think you'll find there are often more exceptions than that narrowly stated view allows for. |
Dear Molly,
It's your tortuous manoeuvring that makes learners like Najlaa think they've caused problems, and I'm very sure that your nitpicking comments put many people off asking questions all together.
It's whenever you ask a question or add a provocative 'right' after a misleading statement that you have nothing else in mind than picking fights. I will henceforth consign such comments to eternal pleasures in the recycle bin.
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