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Torsten Learning Coach

Joined: 25 Sep 2003 Posts: 14494 Location: EU
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#3 (permalink) Sat Aug 23, 2008 22:18 pm why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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Hi Mr.Torsten,
Thank you for your helpful reply . Can you tell me which one American and which is British or Australian , please ?
Thanks a lot , |
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Najlaa I'm new here and I like it ;-)

Joined: 06 Aug 2008 Posts: 42 Location: Saudi Arabia
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Torsten Learning Coach

Joined: 25 Sep 2003 Posts: 14494 Location: EU
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#5 (permalink) Sat Aug 23, 2008 22:34 pm why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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| Thanks for your great efforts Mr.Torsten . |
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Najlaa I'm new here and I like it ;-)

Joined: 06 Aug 2008 Posts: 42 Location: Saudi Arabia
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Torsten Learning Coach

Joined: 25 Sep 2003 Posts: 14494 Location: EU
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#7 (permalink) Wed Aug 27, 2008 0:15 am why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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The Oxford English Dictionary only gave "offen" as the pronunciation of "often" until quite recently (I think the 1970s): it was considered something of a faux pas to pronounce the "t". (Cf. "soften".)
But the pronunciation "of-ten" is now increasingly heard in the UK; presumably people are influenced by the spelling.
The pronunciation "orphan" can also be heard in British films from the 1930s and 1940s; though few people use it now.
Best wishes,
MrP |
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MrPedantic I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 1326 Location: Southern England
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#8 (permalink) Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:39 am why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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Hi MrPedantic,
As an ESL learner,which one can i use nowadays in communication with native speakers of English language ? /ˈȯ-fən / or /ˈȯf-tən /?
Thanks a lot. |
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Najlaa I'm new here and I like it ;-)

Joined: 06 Aug 2008 Posts: 42 Location: Saudi Arabia
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#9 (permalink) Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:04 am why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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Hi Najlaa
I have heard the word 'often' pronounced both with and without the 'T' sound all my life. My experience is that pronouncing it without the 'T' sound is the more commonly used pronunciation. . _________________ "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8316 Location: USA
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#10 (permalink) Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:47 am why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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| Torsten wrote: |
Hi, this is the British/Australian version: əd'vɜːtɪsmənt This is the American pronunciation: (ăd'vər-tī'zĭng) |
Not quite. We Americans say [ʼęd vr taiz mənt].
"Advertising" is a different word, and the stress in that word is also placed on the first syllable, not on the second to last, as you have it written. |
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Jamie (K) I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 6552 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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#11 (permalink) Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:49 am why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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| Yankee wrote: |
| I have heard the word 'often' pronounced both with and without the 'T' sound all my life. My experience is that pronouncing it without the 'T' sound is the more commonly used pronunciation. |
I agree. It's usually pronounced without the T. To many people the version with the T sounds "less educated". |
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Jamie (K) I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 6552 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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#12 (permalink) Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:02 am why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| Not quite. We Americans say [ʼęd vr taiz mənt]. |
I've always pronounced that word with the main stress on the third syllable (taiz). That may be more of an East Coast tendency I suppose. . _________________ "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8316 Location: USA
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#13 (permalink) Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:55 am why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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Hi Yankee, Jamie (k),
I also hear it without /T/ in TV ,movies , news etc but it confuses me when i search in dictionaries .
Thanks for your replies and amazing discussion.
Bwst regards, |
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Najlaa I'm new here and I like it ;-)

Joined: 06 Aug 2008 Posts: 42 Location: Saudi Arabia
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#14 (permalink) Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:54 pm why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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| Yankee wrote: |
| Jamie (K) wrote: |
| Not quite. We Americans say [ʼęd vr taiz mənt]. |
I've always pronounced that word with the main stress on the third syllable (taiz). That may be more of an East Coast tendency I suppose. |
Of course, I have heard the word all my life, and I even worked five advertising agencies, and this thread was the first time I have ever heard of an American stressing that word on the third syllable. So I looked it up in a couple of American dictionaries, and not one of them shows the word being stressed on the first syllable, but always on the third. However, I know that if I set foot in one of the agencies where I used to work, everybody, including the people transferred from New York, will be stressing it on the first syllable.
So all the American dictionaries show it being stressed on the third syllable, and yet I, with all the traveling I've done, and with all the national media I've heard and still hear, have only ever heard it stressed on the first syllable by Americans.
What am I to make of this? I don't know. I guess the same thing I make of the TOEFL recordings, which are supposed to be in neutral General American, but are actually in snooty Ivy League-ish, NPR-ish speech. I place dictionaries in the same category, because they occasionally list pronunciations that I find surrealistic. |
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Jamie (K) I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 6552 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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#15 (permalink) Wed Aug 27, 2008 13:33 pm why often has two way of pronunciation? |
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Hi Jamie
I'd describe my pronunciation of that word this way:
The main stress is on the third syllable. However the secondary stress on the first syllable sometimes (but not always) comes close to being about the same. . _________________ "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~ Abraham Lincoln |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8316 Location: USA
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| The 'V' and 'W' of non-native speakers. | textbook suggestions |