"that" vs. "which" in attributive clause

[Torenable]

Hi everyone,

I'm confused what's the different between this two sentences:
This is the one that I wanted.
This is the one which I wanted.

The Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English says:" In informal and spoken English, it is more usual to use that."

In my memory, the Economist usually uses "that" in a restrictive attributive clause and ", which" to refer a non-restrictive attributive clause. Is this magazine informal?

Many thanks,
torenable

Oh, btw, can "which" refer to a whole sentence, such as "He set free the birds happily, which was a celebration for his success."?

[Jamie (K)]

"That" is used in both formal and informal English in those restrictive clauses. The only time "which" would sound normal in them would be in the very, very high level of formality found in court and in extremely formal academic righting. Even in those situations "that" might often be used. Basically, you can't go wrong using "that" in a restrictive clause, but you can often go wrong using "which".

With the non-restrictive clauses it's impossible to use "that", so you have to use "which".

The writing in "The Economist" is at the appropriate level of formality for journalism.

I imagine that formal writing in Chinese is probably much more formal than formal writing in English.

[Torenable]

Hi, Jamie
Thanks for your detailed explanation.
This makes me clearly understand their difference and usage. You know, it has troubled me for a long long time and most of grammar books do not collect it.

off topic:
Admittedly, I agree with your imagination in most of parts. I think this is the result of education and very common in adult foreign language learners. As I know, lots of foreigner use Chinese more formal than I do, although not fluently and accurately. First, my teacher never taught me words like "what's up". And you may hear people may say "A combine B" in chat. Then comparing with native speakers studying English as a habit, most of language learners, like me, take it as a course or a project. When you say every words following the grammar, it must be much more formal, right? ^ ^

And I wish my English would be more and more informal and native~~

[Jamie (K)]

The best English I have ever heard spoken by a native Chinese was from a man who decided to focus more on learning idioms than on learning grammar. In the end (if there ever is an end to learning a language), his English sounded incredibly good, because he knew how to say everything that a native speaker would.

I often teach English to Chinese people with doctoral degrees who have come to the US. They already know all the grammar rules backwards and forwards when they arrive, and they have huge vocabularies, but they still don't know how to speak or write appropriately, because they know almost no idioms. So I don't bother teaching them any grammar, but teach them only idioms and culture.

[Torenable]

Thank you very much for the advice. I think it's a lighthouse for me.

It's a very popular problem to know over 10k words but speak like a CAT. After memorized GRE words, my friend chatted with an American. At the end, the native speaker made a fun of him by saying that he felt like talking with a dictionary and some of words he hadn't used nearly a decade.

Could you tell me some ways to improve my writing and where could I post writing exercises in our forum? I suppose I would have great benefit from people's instructions and suggestions.

Thank you again!

[Jamie (K)]

One of the problems with forums is that the English speakers who help on them are just volunteers, and they often don't have time to correct long texts from thousands and thousands of people.

I think the best way to improve your writing is to read a lot. Read all kinds of material. That language all gets processed in your subconscious mind somehow, even if you don't remember any of it, and the result is greatly improved writing. One thing that will help you is if you read and listen to audio of the same text, so that your mind doesn't get too stuck on the written letters instead of how the words are pronounced.

Here is a site that has news and various features in both text form and MP3 audio form.

voanews.com/specialenglish

This site has both ebooks and audio books of classic literature.

gutenberg.org/browse/categories/1

[Torsten]

Hi Kevin,

In addition to Jamie's suggestions, you might want to read the relative pronouns and how to improve my writing skills.

Let me know what you think.
Regards,
Torsten
_________________
Test Of English for International Communication
TOEIC Preparation & TOEIC Vocabulary

[Torsten]

[Torenable]

Hi, everyone
Thank you for you replies and great suggestions first!