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 #17 (permalink) Mon Sep 08, 2008 17:25 pm Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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| Ralf wrote: |
| OK, Molly. Please tell sitifan that he shouldn't say 'There is a pencil on the desk' because it is TEFLese. And please tell him why you have the authority to do so. |
If you're telling him to use it, you must assume that it is you who has the authority. Do you?
Not sure why you're getting all upset over this, Ralf. You have decided that the item isn't somewhat "unreal" and/or somewhat TEFLese. Why can't you be happy with your decision and allow me mine? |
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Molly
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| #18 (permalink) Mon Sep 08, 2008 17:59 pm Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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Because you are not open to reason. Three people give you what you want - examples of 'such'. But you are not prepared to accept any of them, because you had already decided not to in advance. In Molly's world there is no pencil on the desk, fair enough.
Where does that leave sitifan?
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 Ralf
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| #19 (permalink) Mon Sep 08, 2008 18:51 pm Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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| Ralf wrote: |
| Where does that leave sitifan? |
Without a pencil, obviously!
Remember, don't try and locate the pencil on the desk, for there is no pencil. Instead, only try to realize the truth. There is no pencil, so don't try and find the pencil. Then you'll see that it's not the pencil that's on the desk, only your perception of the pencil on the desk.:D
A free pencil to anybody who can identify the quote I paraphrased.
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Skrej
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| #20 (permalink) Mon Sep 08, 2008 19:02 pm Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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There is no pencil on the desk -- only a spoon! :lol:
(Where's my pencil?)
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Yankee
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| #21 (permalink) Mon Sep 08, 2008 19:28 pm Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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| Yankee wrote: |
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There is no pencil on the desk -- only a spoon! :lol:
(Where's my pencil?)
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If you say it long enough and loud enough, you begin to believe in it. |
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Molly
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| #22 (permalink) Mon Sep 08, 2008 20:54 pm Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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| Yankee wrote: |
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There is no pencil on the desk -- only a spoon! :lol:
(Where's my pencil?)
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For Yankee!
Sorry, it's a bit used.
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Skrej
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| #23 (permalink) Mon Sep 08, 2008 20:59 pm Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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Look, a pencil IS on the desk! An apple, too, is on the desk.
(According to scuttlebutt from TEFLese speakers, anyway. But we all know they're unreliable speakers, so it's dubious.)
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Plan to be spontaneous tomorrow.
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Skrej
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| #24 (permalink) Mon Sep 08, 2008 22:10 pm Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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| M. wrote: |
To you, Skrej, MrP and all teachers and students here: Say "no" to ersatz language. Say "no" to TEFLese.
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It's a wonderful exhortation, M.
And what sentence, in your opinion, would be a "useful" substitute for our stationery example?
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #25 (permalink) Mon Sep 08, 2008 22:16 pm Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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| Quote: |
| And what sentence, in your opinion, would be a "useful" substitute for our stationery example? |
You want me to do your work for you? How about "Take your obsessive, for example"? :lol: |
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Molly
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| #26 (permalink) Mon Sep 08, 2008 23:28 pm Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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| Molly wrote: |
| You want me to do your work for you? |
You presumably had a more "useful" phrase in mind, to illustrate existential "there"; otherwise, you would not know that there were more useful phrases.
What phrase(s) were you thinking of?
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #27 (permalink) Tue Sep 09, 2008 0:09 am Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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| Quote: |
| You presumably had a more "useful" phrase in mind, to illustrate existential "there"; otherwise, you would not know that there were more useful phrases. |
Hey, the first time I went to the theatre the play was crap. Never seen a play in my life before but I knew that first play was crap. Go figure.
Now do tell me, what is it that your ESL student should want to express by "There is a pen on the desk"? |
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Molly
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| #28 (permalink) Tue Sep 09, 2008 0:25 am Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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| Molly wrote: |
Now do tell me, what is it that your ESL student should want to express by "There is a pen on the desk"?
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The example teaches the student a structure (existential there; and secondarily, one use of the preposition "on"); it is easily illustrated; it requires no context; it does not distract the student with its content.
But why not post a better alternative, if you have one?
Or perhaps one of those 76 notebookees could suggest something.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #29 (permalink) Tue Sep 09, 2008 0:36 am Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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Clean-up, aisle 4
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Yankee
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| embient vs surrounding | Use do or does during my speech or to make question: How can I use them? |
