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 #2 (permalink) Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:16 am Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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Both sentences are correct and acceptable.
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 Skrej
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| #3 (permalink) Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:31 am Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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| Skrej wrote: |
| Both sentences are correct and acceptable. |
If somewhat "unreal", somewhat EFLese.  |
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Molly
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| #4 (permalink) Fri Sep 05, 2008 21:06 pm Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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I see nothing 'unreal' about either of them. Two simple descriptive sentences.
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Skrej
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| #5 (permalink) Fri Sep 05, 2008 21:58 pm Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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I agree with Skrej.
And whether or not they will also be "natural" in context will of course depend entirely on the context itself.
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Yankee
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| #6 (permalink) Fri Sep 05, 2008 23:12 pm Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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| Molly wrote: |
| If somewhat "unreal", somewhat EFLese |
Sentences of this kind demonstrate useful structures which can be illustrated easily in e.g. a classroom, not phrases that are necessarily useful in themselves.
Cf. the use of similar sentences in philosophical texts: "The book is on the table" is a favoured starting-point for discussion not because it is epistemologically important, but because its content is unexceptional.
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MrPedantic
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| #7 (permalink) Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:10 am Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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| Quote: |
| Sentences of this kind demonstrate useful structures which can be illustrated easily in e.g. a classroom, not phrases that are necessarily useful in themselves. |
Why not use useful phrases instead? |
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Molly
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| #8 (permalink) Sun Sep 07, 2008 0:19 am Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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It is a useful phrase. It teaches you a structure; it is easily illustrated; it requires no context; it does not distract you with its content.
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MrPedantic
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| #9 (permalink) Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:09 am Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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1. There is a pencil on the desk.
2. A pencil is on the desk.
What's the difference in meaning between the above two sentences?
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Sitifan
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| #10 (permalink) Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:40 am Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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| Quote: |
1. There is a pencil on the desk.
2. A pencil is on the desk.
What's the difference in meaning between the above two sentences? |
There is no difference in meaning as they stand isolated, sitifan, though in context, there might be. Generally, #1 is the more common in conversation because the 'existential-there' structure moves the subject of the sentence nearer to the end, where it basks in a warmer spotlight of emphasis.
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Mister Micawber
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| #11 (permalink) Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:42 am Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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| Yankee wrote: |
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I agree with Skrej.
And whether or not they will also be "natural" in context will of course depend entirely on the context itself.
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Would you say the same for "My tailor is rich"? That's one of the "natural" sentences they've been teaching for years in ESL classes in Spain. As you are always challenging me regarding "real" usage, please provide used examples of the sentence "A pencil is on the desk", would you, Amy?
To you, Skrej, MrP and all teachers and students here: Say "no" to ersatz language. Say "no" to TEFLese. |
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Molly
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| #12 (permalink) Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:02 am Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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| Quote: |
| #1 is the more common in conversation because the 'existential-there' structure moves the subject of the sentence nearer to the end, where it basks in a warmer spotlight of emphasis. |
Have you ever in all your life heard someone say, outside and ESL classroom, "There is a pencil on the desk", Mr M? |
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Molly
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| #13 (permalink) Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:05 am Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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Honestly? Many, many, many times, Molly (except that 'there is' is contracted, of course). It is as common as dandelions.
There's a pencil on the desk-- would you hand it to me, please?
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Ralf
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| #15 (permalink) Mon Sep 08, 2008 16:38 pm Sentence "A pencil is on the desk" |
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| Ralf wrote: |
Angelina: What are you looking for?
Brad: A pencil.
Angelina: But Brad, there is a pencil on the desk. |
Yup, very TEFLese, or maybe an extract from Brideshead Revisted.  |
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Molly
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| embient vs surrounding | Use do or does during my speech or to make question: How can I use them? |
