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 #17 (permalink) Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:29 pm Do we really report speech? |
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| Yankee wrote: |
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Would you say much too much time is spent on drumming "present perfect" usage into students' heads?
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Is the present perfect wholly typical of naturally occuring data? |
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Molly
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| #18 (permalink) Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:47 pm Do we really report speech? |
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| MrPedantic wrote: |
| I begin to sense that you are unfamiliar with what goes on in offices, M. |
I think you're on to something there, MrP.
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Yankee
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| #19 (permalink) Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:54 pm Do we really report speech? |
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| Molly wrote: |
| Is the present perfect wholly typical of naturally occuring data? |
How would you compare the amount of time spent drumming the present perfect into students' heads to the amount of time spent drumming the simple past tense into students' heads?
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Yankee
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| #20 (permalink) Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:55 pm Do we really report speech? |
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I can't imagine anyone who had ever worked in an organisation with more than one employee imagining that reported speech was some kind of rare event in ordinary office life. There is no end to the touching of antennae and Chinese whispers.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #21 (permalink) Thu Sep 18, 2008 14:26 pm Do we really report speech? |
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| Quote: |
| There is no end to the touching of antennae and Chinese whispers. |
But the question is still: Do people carry out such whispers more as reported events or as reported speech? |
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Molly
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| #22 (permalink) Thu Sep 18, 2008 17:05 pm Do we really report speech? |
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| Quote: |
| I begin to sense that you are unfamiliar with what goes on in offices, M. |
Wow, what a conversation stopper. Mind, that was your intention, so... |
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Molly
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| #23 (permalink) Thu Sep 18, 2008 17:48 pm Do we really report speech? |
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| Molly wrote: |
But the question is still: Do people carry out such whispers more as reported events or as reported speech?
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Sometimes conversations are summarised; sometimes they're reported more or less verbatim. In some contexts, a faithful rendering is more important than in others.
But note that even where reports are unfaithful to the original, they may still use the apparatus of reported speech.
To return to the quotation in question: I'm afraid that anyone who imagines that reported speech is "untypical" in the workplace has only an indirect and inaccurate knowledge of workplace English; probably acquired from books written by similar types.
Let us hope that such a person is not let loose on unsuspecting Spanish students, M.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #24 (permalink) Thu Sep 18, 2008 22:16 pm Do we really report speech? |
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| Quote: |
| I'm afraid that anyone who imagines that reported speech is "untypical" in the workplace has only an indirect and inaccurate knowledge of workplace English; probably acquired from books written by similar types. |
Would "workplace" include the offices of a publisher, a university staff room, IYO? |
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Molly
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| #25 (permalink) Thu Sep 18, 2008 22:21 pm Do we really report speech? |
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| Molly wrote: |
| Would "workplace" include the offices of a publisher, a university staff room, IYO? |
I would class both as places of relaxation.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #26 (permalink) Thu Sep 18, 2008 22:25 pm Do we really report speech? |
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| MrPedantic wrote: |
| Molly wrote: |
| Would "workplace" include the offices of a publisher, a university staff room, IYO? |
I would class both as places of relaxation.
MrP |
Which shows you have been near neither.
So, your conclusion is that reported speech is wholly typical of naturally occuring data, is it? But what is your definition of "typical", in your use of the word? |
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Molly
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| #27 (permalink) Thu Sep 18, 2008 22:48 pm Do we really report speech? |
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| Quote: |
Which shows you have been near either.
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Quite near.
| Quote: |
So, your conclusion is that reported speech is wholly typical of naturally occuring data, is it?
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Things that never happen in offices, according to M: part 1
A: B, can you give C a call and find out when we can expect that XYZ.
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B: I was just wondering when we could expect the XYZ.
C: You should get it on Thursday afternoon. Friday at the latest.
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B: I spoke to C. He said we should get it on Thursday afternoon, or Friday at the latest.
A: That's no good. When I spoke to him last week, he said we'd have it for Wednesday. Call him back and tell him Thursday's too late.
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B: I've had a word with my manager, and he says Thursday's too late.
etc.
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MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #28 (permalink) Thu Sep 18, 2008 22:53 pm Do we really report speech? |
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| Quote: |
| Things that never happen in offices, according to M: part 1 |
Ah, and this is the typical MrP path. I wondered when it might appear.
Do show me where I said that reported speech does not happen in offices, will you? |
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Molly
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| #29 (permalink) Thu Sep 18, 2008 23:00 pm Do we really report speech? |
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| Molly wrote: |
| Do show me where I said that reported speech does not happen in offices, will you? |
I welcome your concession.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #30 (permalink) Thu Sep 18, 2008 23:16 pm Do we really report speech? |
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| MrPedantic wrote: |
| Molly wrote: |
| Do show me where I said that reported speech does not happen in offices, will you? |
I welcome your concession.
MrP |
If someone has made the statement below and asked you that type of question, I hardly think concession comes into the arguments, do you?
| Quote: |
| But the question is still: Do people carry out such whispers more as reported events or as reported speech? |
And earlier:
| Quote: |
| Again, isn't more the event that is reported than the speech? |
Earlier still:
| Quote: |
| I feel there may be an inordinate amount of time spent on an area that may be ""wholly untypical of naturally occuring data". |
So your call for concession is mere wish-fulfilment.
Moving on...
What do you make of the statement "it happens here, but it's not typical"? |
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Molly
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| Interesting period | Need a platform to place my poems on! |
