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 #32 (permalink) Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:16 am Do we really report speech? |
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By the way, M., do sentences such as these occur "naturally":
1. Michael Lewis says that reported speech is a category that is wholly untypical of naturally occurring data.
2. Do show me where I said that reported speech does not happen in offices, will you?
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #33 (permalink) Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:18 am Do we really report speech? |
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| MrPedantic wrote: |
Roll back a little further, and we shall be almost in accord.
MrP |
On what? |
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Molly
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| #34 (permalink) Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:26 am Do we really report speech? |
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| Quote: |
| By the way, M., do sentences such as these occur "naturally": |
Typically?
| Quote: |
| Minutes and summaries are not "conversations". |
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Molly
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| #35 (permalink) Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:56 am Do we really report speech? |
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I see. So Michael Lewis didn't say what you said he said. Interesting.
In that case, what was the original statement?
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #36 (permalink) Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:09 pm Do we really report speech? |
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Regarding answering questions, you've got a bit of catching up to do - as usual.
| Quote: |
| By the way, M., do sentences such as these occur "naturally": |
Typically?
.........
Do people carry out such whispers more as reported events or as reported speech?
But what is your definition of "typical", in your use of the word?
What do you make of the statement "it happens here, but it's not typical"?
I'll give you time, if you need it. No rush. |
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Molly
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| #37 (permalink) Fri Sep 19, 2008 13:09 pm Do we really report speech? |
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| Molly wrote: |
Regrding ansering questions, you've got a bit of catching up to do - as usual.
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To answer all your questions would be a full-time job. (I should think that asking them all is a full-time job.)
That said, I answer as many as time permits; but of course, the purpose of this forum is to help genuine ESL students, not ESL teachers at a loose end between sessions. So you'll forgive me if I don't always oblige.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #38 (permalink) Fri Sep 19, 2008 14:38 pm Do we really report speech? |
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| MrPedantic wrote: |
, the purpose of this forum is to help genuine ESL students,
MrP |
Which forum would that be? This one "TEFL, ESL, EFL and divergent views on teaching English"?
I can see that answering this one might put you in a bit of a predicament though: What do you make of the statement "it happens here, but it's not typical"? |
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Molly
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| #39 (permalink) Sat Sep 20, 2008 0:46 am Do we really report speech? |
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| Molly wrote: |
Which forum would that be? This one "TEFL, ESL, EFL and divergent views on teaching English"?
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So it is. Congratulations, old thing. You have been duly sectioned.
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I ca see that answering this one might put you in a bit of a predicament though: What do you make of the statement "it happens here, but it's not typical"?
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Consider these two statements:
1. Reported speech is wholly untypical of naturally occurring data.
2. Reported speech happens here, but it's not typical.
You began with #1, but have now retreated to the milder #2.
With a very little effort, you could find yourself at:
3. Reported speech is quite common in everyday English.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #40 (permalink) Sat Sep 20, 2008 14:21 pm Do we really report speech? |
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| Quote: |
| You have been duly sectioned. |
And I'm meant to feel how, about that?
| Quote: |
1. Reported speech is wholly untypical of naturally occurring data.
2. Reported speech happens here, but it's not typical.
You began with #1, but have now retreated to the milder #2. |
Really? I see them as much the same. And I began here - in case you missed it:
| Quote: |
| Isn't it true that we don't really report speech, but we do report events? |
So, tell me, if you'll venture to: what does "wholly untypical" mean to you?
And what does "quite common"
mean?
| Quote: |
| 3. Reported speech is quite common in everyday English. |
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Molly
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| #41 (permalink) Sun Sep 21, 2008 14:49 pm Do we really report speech? |
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To respond to your queries, in order of appearance:
1. Unduly flattered.
2. "Wholly untypical" is an incautious assertion; "not typical" is a wary concession.
3. "Quite common" is not quite as common as "very common", and not quite as uncommon as "quite uncommon".
For instance, if you were to pronounce that reported speech is "quite common" in everyday English, it would not be unreasonable.
As for "reporting events": as I mentioned earlier, the apparatus of reported speech may well be used, even if the report itself isn't entirely faithful.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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Location: Southern England
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| #42 (permalink) Sun Sep 21, 2008 16:19 pm Do we really report speech? |
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| Quote: |
| 1. Unduly flattered. |
??? flattened? :lol:
| Quote: |
| 2. "Wholly untypical" is an incautious assertion; "not typical" is a wary concession. |
They're the meanings, are they?
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| 3. "Quite common" is not quite as common as "very common", and not quite as uncommon as "quite uncommon". |
And how can you prove that reported speech is quite common in naturally occurring data?
| Quote: |
| For instance, if you were to pronounce that reported speech is "quite common" in everyday English, it would not be unreasonable. |
The same if you were to pronounce that it isn't very common, right? Until we have figures from a wide overlook of use, "quite common" and "not so common" and "wholly untypical" remain as assertions, right? |
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Molly
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| #43 (permalink) Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:52 am Do we really report speech? |
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Here's the complete passage from Lewis:
“Traditional grammar taught so-called reported speech. As discussed elsewhere, this category is wholly untypical of naturally occurring data. Most often, the speaker reports the whole event, rather than manipulating the words which were spoken. The “reporter” summarises or synopsises the whole event lexically and so requires an adequate repertoire of synopsising verbs.” (Michael Lewis. Innovation in English Language Teaching. 2001.)
So, how do you stand on that assertion (underlined), folks?
I agree.
I disagree.
I dunno?
Other (please state) |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
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Molly
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| #45 (permalink) Mon Sep 22, 2008 22:30 pm Do we really report speech? |
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1. Michael Lewis says that reported speech is a category that is wholly untypical of naturally occurring data.
2. As discussed elsewhere, this category is wholly untypical of naturally occurring data.
Does #1 report #2, in your opinion, M? Or would you call it a summary?
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| Interesting period | Need a platform to place my poems on! |
