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 Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:09 am Do we really report speech? |
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think u are right
i'll choose B |
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 Waelsaeed
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| Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:48 am Do we really report speech? |
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| waelsaeed wrote: | think u are right
i'll choose B |
As would the majority. Much too much time is spent on drumming so called "reported speech" usage into students' heads. I wonder why. |
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Molly
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| Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:16 am Do we really report speech? |
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| In Innovation in English Language Teaching, by David Hall and Ann Hewings, Michael Lewis says that reported speech is a category that is "wholly untypical of naturally occuring data". If that's so, why does it get so much attention in ESL classes? |
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Molly
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| Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:53 am Do we really report speech? |
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Have you (or they) checked the corpora?
And what does "so much attention" mean exactly?
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Amy
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ESL teacher, and native speaker of American English |
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Yankee
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| Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:01 am Do we really report speech? |
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| Quote: | | Have you (or they) checked the corpora? |
I'd say Lewis has checked many corpora, accessed his many years experience in the world of language teaching and linguistics, consulted lots of colleagues, and refelected on his many years as a native English speaker.
| Quote: | | And what does "so much attention" mean exactly? |
From my years as an ESL student, from the coursebooks I've looked at and the teachers I've talked to, I feel there may be an inordinate amount of time spent on an area that may be ""wholly untypical of naturally occuring data".
What's your opinion on all this, Amy? |
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Molly
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| Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:01 am Do we really report speech? |
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| Molly wrote: | | In Innovation in English Language Teaching, by David Hall and Ann Hewings, Michael Lewis says that reported speech is a category that is "wholly untypical of naturally occuring data". If that's so, why does it get so much attention in ESL classes? |
These comments* betray an interesting unfamiliarity with normal workplace activities:
1. going to meetings > reporting on meetings
2. taking phone calls > reporting on phone calls
3. visiting clients > reporting back on client visits
4. handling complaints > reporting complaints
5. arranging contracts > reporting back on discussions surrounding contracts
6. interviewing candidates > comparing candidates' responses with the other members of an interview panel
7. handling staff problems > seeking advice from an HR dept on staff problems
8. disciplining or appraising staff > reporting relevant conversations with third parties
Indeed, much of ordinary workplace life consists of talking about talking.
MrP
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*Edit: i.e. "the comments above" |
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MrPedantic
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| Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:04 am Do we really report speech? |
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| Quote: | | Indeed, much of ordinary workplace life consists of talking about talking. |
Again, isn't more the event that is reported than the speech?
e.g.
http://www.karting1.co.uk/news/?p=39 |
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Molly
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| Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:09 am Do we really report speech? |
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No.
It's a question of innumerable conversations that begin "I've spoken to X, and he said...", pass through "Wait a minute. Tell me exactly what he said again", and conclude with "Well, just tell him we're going to..."
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:15 am Do we really report speech? |
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| Quote: | | It's a question of innumerable conversations that begin "I've spoken to X, and he said...", |
And "he/she said" in normally very common, is it"?
So, typically, the messenger goes back to X and says ""I've spoken to Y, and told him what you said, and he said ..."? |
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Molly
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Molly
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| Thu Sep 18, 2008 13:02 pm Do we really report speech? |
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Your random selection is beside the point:
| MrP wrote: | innumerable conversations
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Minutes and summaries are not "conversations".
| Molly wrote: | And "he/she said" in normally very common, is it"?
So, typically, the messenger goes back to X and says ""I've spoken to Y, and told him what you said, and he said ..."? |
Or simply "X says Y", e.g.
1. I've spoken to Mike, and he says if we XYZ...
The variations are as innumerable as the conversations.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| Thu Sep 18, 2008 13:16 pm Do we really report speech? |
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| Quote: | | Minutes and summaries are not "conversations". |
Nor are some of these:
| Quote: | 1. going to meetings > reporting on meetings
2. taking phone calls > reporting on phone calls
3. visiting clients > reporting back on client visits
4. handling complaints > reporting complaints
5. arranging contracts > reporting back on discussions surrounding contracts
6. interviewing candidates > comparing candidates' responses with the other members of an interview panel
7. handling staff problems > seeking advice from an HR dept on staff problems
8. disciplining or appraising staff > reporting relevant conversations with third parties
Indeed, much of ordinary workplace life consists of talking about talking. |
In business, much talking is not conversation. |
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Molly
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| Thu Sep 18, 2008 13:22 pm Do we really report speech? |
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| Quote: | Or simply "X says Y", e.g.
1. I've spoken to Mike, and he says if we XYZ...
The variations are as innumerable as the conversations. |
But are they wholly "typical of naturally occuring data" or is reporting events much more common? |
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Molly
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| Thu Sep 18, 2008 13:24 pm Do we really report speech? |
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Would you say much too much time is spent on drumming "present perfect" usage into students' heads?
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Amy
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ESL teacher, and native speaker of American English |
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Yankee
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