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 #2 (permalink) Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:10 am Difference between till and untill |
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Till is simply slang for untill
From now till December.
From now untill December.
Same!
If you are being formal, it is better to always use untill. |
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HamburgEnglish
I'm here quite often ;-)
Joined: 01 May 2007
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| #3 (permalink) Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:13 am Difference between till and untill |
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| Quote: |
| If you are being formal, it is better to always use untill. |
There's no such thing as "untill". And, "till" is actually the older word and not an abbreviation of "until".
But it is true that "till" is more often found in the Spoken and in Fiction registers and "until" is more often found in the Academic and News registers. "Until" is also found more often at the beginning of sentences than is "till". |
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Molly
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| #4 (permalink) Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:26 am Difference between till and untill |
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You are totally correct. But we are talking about the use of "till" and "until" of today
and in today's society "till" is seen by many as slang for "until" especially in business communication.
For those interested ....
"Till" and "until" mean up to a point in time.
"Til" is actually the oldest word form of Till in Old English and means "to"
The addition of "un" to the word "til" I think was in 1280 ish. Maybe you can search for this time if you are interested.
With the addition of un to til = until, the meaning became "up to" From what I remember learning many moons ago, the story of till and until is very interesting.
Sorry aout the mistake in my spelling! I have now oiled my "l" button a bit. |
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HamburgEnglish
I'm here quite often ;-)
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| #5 (permalink) Thu Sep 25, 2008 18:42 pm Difference between till and untill |
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| #6 (permalink) Thu Sep 25, 2008 19:59 pm Difference between till and untill |
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| HamburgEnglish wrote: |
Till is simply slang for untill
From now till December.
From now untill December.
Same!
If you are being formal, it is better to always use untill. |
I'm sorry, but that's entirely incorrect, as Molly has pointed out.
Please see this:
http://www.bartleby.com/64/C003/0284.html |
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Barb_D
I'm here quite often ;-)
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| #7 (permalink) Thu Sep 25, 2008 22:03 pm Difference between till and untill |
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You are totally correct. But we are talking about the use of "till" and "until" of today
and in today's society "till" is seen by many as slang for "until" especially in business communication. |
Beyond the business world you know and into the wider world.
Hardly examples of slang here. Does the cotext (not context) sound like slang in each of these extracts? Are the extracts informal in register?
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Whereas, it is common knowledge that counselling enterprise is highly rooted in the needs of the immediate environment, and can not exist separately from the society and culture of the people it serves (Dogan, 2000). # Guidance and counselling in Nigeria remains professionally isolated from other human services professions like psychology, social work, sociology, nursing, public health and psychiatry. Till date, training and practice for counsellors continue to emphasize counselling as a singular discipline, yet problems that they ought to address have become interrelated and complex, and seeking a multidisciplinary solution.
SOME THOUGHTS ABOUT THE FUTURE OF GUIDANCE AND COUNSELLING IN NIGERIA. By Aluede, Oyaziwo / Afen-Akpaida, Justina E. / Adomeh, Ilu O.C. |
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The student sample consisted only of students who were attending a 4-year state college. Generalizations to other types of institutions, private or vocational, must be tentative. Because course attrition may be correlated with institutional attrition, a running questionnaire (i.e., handed out at the point of withdrawal) is needed to get more accurate student views. Other possible avenues of research are to examine correlations between the number of classes withdrawn from with either (a) likelihood to complete school or (b) time till completion.
Title: Why students withdraw from classes. Source: Journal of Psychology |
[quote]Have you not read that the head of the church will sustain his own cause, and that this cause will never be perfected, till wars and rumours of war shall cease from under the whole heaven?
Source: Journal of Church & State [quote]
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There was no need for a question time, since a member could intervene in business by moving a motion on a number of pretexts and raise any subject in an immediate debate. If the House was worried, the government could not refuse a full explanation nor could it return to its other business till members were satisfied. The House might decide to act on its own by appointing a committee to inquire into the matter or a private member might move resolutions or introduce his own measure.
Mackintosh's The government and politics of Britain. Richards, P. (ed.) London: Unwin Hyman Ltd, 1988 |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
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| #8 (permalink) Thu Sep 25, 2008 22:15 pm Difference between till and untill |
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"Till" over registers (search term: till.[pr*] ):
PER MIL
SPOKEN 127.5
FICTION 38.6
NEWSPAPER 8.1
ACADEMIC 7.3
MISC 13.2
http://corpus.byu.edu/bnc/x.asp
Mixed views:
TILL and Until: These two words mean exactly the same. TILL is more common in conversational English; UNTIL is used in both conversation and formal styles. Swan (1980:611)
In all varieties of writing till and until are interchangeable both as prepositions (wait till/until tomorrow) and as conjunctions (Wait till/until they get here). (Ebbitt & Ebbitt 1979: 283)
Till is a synonym for until, probably less common in the written language than until is. Till often has a literary or poetic effect. (Frank 1972:36)
Till and until are synonyms, used in subordinating clauses or as prepositions. They are used idiosyncratically by various writers (Di Hall Cane and Doyle use until preferably or even exclusively, while Hardy seems to use till only. (Jespersen 1970)
Till is not distinguished in meaning from until... (Ward 1993: 314-315)
http://www.english-test.net/forum/posting.php?mode=editpost&p=108053
And from the same text:
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| I maintain, however, that the members of the lexical pair (are) not synonyms, but rather each possesses a single invariant meaning which distinguishes it from the other, and will motivate its distribution in the language. |
So, are they synonyms or not? |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
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| #9 (permalink) Thu Sep 25, 2008 22:49 pm Difference between till and untill |
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And, more interesting:
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If the marked form until is replaced by the unmarked form till, a durational message is obtained:
(1) Pollard would not be freed until a direct request is made by Rabin.
(Jerusalem Post, 25.7.93) (until = condition/consequence), (till = duration)
(2) He won't die until his heart stops beating.
(until = condition/consequence) (till = duration)
(3) He will not bury her until she is officially considered dead.
(until = condition) (till = duration) |
http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/french/as-sa/ASSA-No8/YT5.html |
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Molly
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 4017
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| "to come and go" | sure and certain |
Annapurna
