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#2 (permalink) Wed Oct 01, 2008 16:18 pm won't |
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| "won't tell me"= clearly states that she refuses to or declines telling you. "Didn't tell me" could express the same, but less definitely. |
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Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
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#3 (permalink) Wed Oct 01, 2008 16:21 pm won't |
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| hime wrote: |
"I asked her what happened, but she won't tell me."
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won't ?
Shouldn't it be wouldn't, since it was in the past, not now ? |
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Lost_Soul I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 15 Sep 2006 Posts: 1861 Location: South Park, Colorado, USA
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#4 (permalink) Wed Oct 01, 2008 16:27 pm won't |
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Shouldn't it be wouldn't, since it was in the past, not now ?
You need to brush up on your reported speech/events grammar.
Think about:
I invited him out to dinner, but he refused. I invited him out to dinner, but he refuses.
In which one are we sure that he still refuses, and what is the time gap between the original speech and the reported moment in each of those examples, IYO?
Also:
I asked her what happened, she wouldn't tell me, but now she has told me. I asked her what happened, she won't tell me, *but now she has told me. |
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Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
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#5 (permalink) Wed Oct 01, 2008 17:39 pm won't |
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Hi Alex and Hime
The word "will" can be used to talk about "willingness".
You can say "but she wouldn't tell me" to indicate that she expressed a refusal to tell you what happened at the time you asked her to tell you. The use of "wouldn't" does not automatically suggest that her unwillingness has changed to willingness in the meantime. It simply reports her past refusal.
The use of "won't" basically looks at "her unwillingness" as an ongoing state rather than as a past act of refusal to tell.
| Molly wrote: |
I asked her what happened, she wouldn't tell me, but now she has told me. I asked her what happened, she won't tell me, *but now she has told me. |
I feel this is a little misleading. If you say "I asked her what happened, but she wouldn't tell me", the use of "wouldn't" definitely does NOT automatically mean that she has now told you. People are not likely to assume that her past unwillingness has now changed to willingness to tell. Only additional context (e.g. such as Molly added) can tell you whether that might possibly have happened in the meantime or not. . |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8265 Location: USA
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#6 (permalink) Wed Oct 01, 2008 17:45 pm won't |
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| Yankee wrote: |
The use of "wouldn't" does not automatically suggest that her unwillingness has changed to willingness in the meantime. It simply reports her past refusal.
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Hi, Amy
Thanks for your explanation, In point of fact, the first thing that came to my mind, when I read the sentence, was her past refusal, that's why I picked up on "won't". Now I see that we can use "won't", but with a different meaning  |
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Lost_Soul I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 15 Sep 2006 Posts: 1861 Location: South Park, Colorado, USA
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#7 (permalink) Wed Oct 01, 2008 19:37 pm won't |
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Sorry but I'm still being confused... So you guys are saying that it is OK to use "won't" for past events if it means to indicate unwillingness? |
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Hime I'm new here and I like it ;-)
Joined: 01 Oct 2008 Posts: 19
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#8 (permalink) Wed Oct 01, 2008 21:52 pm won't |
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Hi Hime
It is possible to say "wouldn't" OR "won't" (and a number of other things as well) in your sentence.
If someone decides to use the phrase "won't tell me" in your sentence, that basically means the same thing as "is not willing to tell me".
Let's stop for a minute and think about the word "is". That is the simple present tense. If I say "He is young", that focuses on a fact that is true at present. However, the fact that he is young was also true last week, for example.
Now, apply that idea to "She is not willing to tell me what happened". In the context of your sentence, the speaker would be emphasizing the fact that "she was unwilling to tell you" AND that her unwillingness still exists now. In other words, it is a general fact that she is not willing to tell you what happened.
Does that help? . |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8265 Location: USA
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#9 (permalink) Wed Oct 01, 2008 22:13 pm won't |
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| Quote: |
Molly wrote: I asked her what happened, she wouldn't tell me, but now she has told me. I asked her what happened, she won't tell me, *but now she has told me.
I feel this is a little misleading. |
How is it misleading? |
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Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
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#10 (permalink) Wed Oct 01, 2008 22:21 pm won't |
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Try this one:
I asked her what happened, but she wouldn't tell me then and she won't tell me now. I asked her what happened, but she refused to tell me then and she still refuses to tell me.
In other words, in the past, she was unwilling to tell the speaker what (had) happened and she is still unwilling to do so. |
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Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
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#11 (permalink) Thu Oct 02, 2008 0:29 am Usege of won't (I asked her what happened, but she won't tell me) |
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Hi, Amy
You say "won't" means "isn't" here, talking about present situation inferred from past situation. So the speaker emphasizes her unwillingness by the way using "won't" rather than "didn't". If so, why the speaker did not use "doesn't" insted of "won't"?
You know "will" indicates future!! So does the speaker thinks that her unwillingness exsisted and still exsits now, and will exist in the future? That's why the speaker use "won"t" insted of "doesn't"? |
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Hime I'm new here and I like it ;-)
Joined: 01 Oct 2008 Posts: 19
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#12 (permalink) Thu Oct 02, 2008 0:55 am Usege of won't (I asked her what happened, but she won't tell me) |
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Hi Hime
The word "will" can be used with another verb to refer to the future. However, the word "will" is not used exclusively to form a "future tense". In your sentence, the word "will" refers to "willingness". In other words, the phrase "she will not" basically means exactly the same thing as "she is not willing".
In your sentence is: She will not tell me = She is not willing to tell me
So, yes, the speaker is suggesting that she was unwilling in the past and that she is unwilling now, and that there is also reason to believe that she will continue to be unwilling. . |
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Yankee I'm a Communicator ;-)

Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 8265 Location: USA
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#13 (permalink) Thu Oct 02, 2008 22:46 pm won't |
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| Molly wrote: |
| "won't tell me"= clearly states that she refuses to or declines telling you. "Didn't tell me" could express the same, but less definitely. |
The above comment is not entirely correct.
1. I asked her what happened, but she won't tell me. 2. I asked her what happened, but she didn't tell me.
#1 implies that "she" has already refused to tell me; the speaker presents that situation as "current".
#2 however does not "express the same...less definitely": instead, it places the "not telling" firmly in the past. The speaker therefore presents that situation as "no longer current".
(I agree with the interpretation of "will" as "be willing" here.)
Best wishes,
MrP |
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MrPedantic I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 1319 Location: Southern England
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#14 (permalink) Thu Oct 02, 2008 23:14 pm Usage of won't (I asked her what happened, but she won't tell me) |
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Let me write it a little clearer for a certain MrPerson:
"won't tell me"= clearly states that she refuses to tell you or declines telling you. "Didn't tell me" could also refer to a refusal or declination, but less definitely or more ambiguously.
Added to that, both won't and didn't are used to locate help the action/event in time - which I think is the more obvious statement of the two here. |
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Molly I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 4017
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#15 (permalink) Fri Oct 03, 2008 16:24 pm Usage of won't (I asked her what happened, but she won't tell me) |
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Could you explain the difference b/w those following sentences again in order to clarify for me?
1) I asked her what happened, but she didn't tell me. 2)I asked her what happened, but she doesn't tell me. 3)I asked her what happened, but she wouldn't tell me. 4)I asked her what happened, but she won't tell me.
Thanks. |
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Hime I'm new here and I like it ;-)
Joined: 01 Oct 2008 Posts: 19
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| Any idioms? (When two persons are always together, etc.) | Checking grammar: Every year our church celebrate thanksgiving as one of the most |