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 #2 (permalink) Fri Oct 03, 2008 0:11 am Wait while it is deleted vs. Wait while it is being deleted |
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Please wait while the file is deleted.
Please wait while the file is being deleted.
To me they mean the same, i.e. do nothing (no commands, actions, clicks of the mouse, etc.) until the hard disk has deleted the file. |
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Molly
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| #3 (permalink) Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:21 am Wait while it is deleted vs. Wait while it is being deleted |
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| Torsten wrote: |
What about you?
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I concur with your opinion, I'd stick to the latter version.
In point of fact, I would choose either of these:
Wait while the file is being deleted
Wait until the file is deleted |
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Lost_Soul
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| #4 (permalink) Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:37 am Wait while it is deleted vs. Wait while it is being deleted |
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| Quote: |
| I would have thought that the sentence with the passive present progressive is much better than that with the present simple but apparently the largest software maker in the world doesn't agree with me. |
Isn't deleted in your first example an adjective and your sentence saying the same as 'Please wait while the file appears as "deleted".' I think each of your examples is fine. The first one focuses on the end of the action and the second on the process of the action*. Just different perspectives (points and periods) on the same action. The "while" in your first sentence is synonymous with "until", and that's why that example is fine. The "while" in your second sentence is synoymous with "during the time/period", and that' why that example is also fine.
If it were this?
Please wait until the file is deleted.
?Please wait until the file is being deleted.
*The progressive form there would have a very different meaning to the one used in your second example above. |
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Molly
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| #5 (permalink) Fri Oct 03, 2008 13:21 pm Wait while it is deleted vs. Wait while it is being deleted |
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Should I continue helping you, Torsten?
| Quote: |
| In many cases you are not interested in helping learners but rather in engaging in little spats with other native speakers. Fortunately enough, most our "Language Coaches" and native speaker forum members are very supportive, friendly and give useful advice to our learners. |
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Molly
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| #6 (permalink) Sat Oct 04, 2008 0:31 am Wait while it is deleted vs. Wait while it is being deleted |
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1. Please wait while the file is deleted.
passive present (sc. "...by [e.g.] the operating system").
2. Please wait while the file is being deleted.
passive present progressive.
I would agree that #2 is the more usual version, though #1 is possible.
Some people dislike the passive progressive structure; it may be that the writer is of that party. The structure itself only became well established in the middle of the 19th century; there was some resistance.
(A couple of centuries ago, a Windows pop-up might well have said "Please wait while the file is deleting": the active construction served for the passive.)
Best wishes,
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #7 (permalink) Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:17 am Wait while it is deleted vs. Wait while it is being deleted |
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| Quote: |
1. Please wait while the file is deleted.
passive present (sc. "...by [e.g.] the operating system"). |
We cannot be sure of that. |
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Molly
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| #8 (permalink) Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:50 am Wait while it is deleted vs. Wait while it is being deleted |
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We can be sure of it. "Wait while..." requires an action in the verb. But "is" + adjective would be a state.
If your interpretation (that "while" here = "until") were correct, we could say of traffic lights:
1. ???Wait while they are green.
to mean:
2. Wait until they are green.
But that is not the case.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #9 (permalink) Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:58 am Wait while it is deleted vs. Wait while it is being deleted |
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| Quote: |
| We can be sure of it. "Wait while..." requires an action in the verb. But "is" + adjective would be a state. |
Kid: I want to go to the toilet.
Mum: Wait while the concert is over.
Have you got a problem with "while" being used as "until"?
Here, I'd be more sure that the passive was being used:
Mum to son: Hey, don't fidget. Keep still while your temperature is taken. |
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Molly
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| #10 (permalink) Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:22 am Wait while it is deleted vs. Wait while it is being deleted |
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| Molly wrote: |
Kid: I want to go to the toilet.
Mum: Wait while the concert is over.
Have you got a problem with "while" being used as "until"?
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It's not at all the same thing as saying 'wait until the concert is over'.
'Wait while the concert is over' would mean that after the concert is over, the kid should sit someplace and wait, presumably for a toilet, until the concert is not over. Even then it's awkward, because it's indefinite. How long is the concert considered 'over'? Until another concert starts?
I've heard of something not being over until it's over, but honestly, that's a rather metaphysical answer to give a kid whose dam's about to burst.
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| #11 (permalink) Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:27 am Wait while it is deleted vs. Wait while it is being deleted |
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| Molly wrote: |
Kid: I want to go to the toilet.
Mum: Wait while the concert is over. |
Is that the sort of manufactured mini-conversation that is used in your ESL classes, M?
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Yankee
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| #12 (permalink) Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:36 am Wait while it is deleted vs. Wait while it is being deleted |
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| Molly wrote: |
Mum: Wait while the concert is over.
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It certainly isn't standard BrE.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #13 (permalink) Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:39 am Wait while it is deleted vs. Wait while it is being deleted |
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| But appears commonly enough to be taught to ESL students who may have contact with BrEng "texts". |
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Molly
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| #14 (permalink) Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:47 am Wait while it is deleted vs. Wait while it is being deleted |
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1. Wait here while I get some coffee.
fine.
2. Wait here while the concert is over.
not fine.
MrP |
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MrPedantic
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| #15 (permalink) Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:35 am Wait while it is deleted vs. Wait while it is being deleted |
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Hi Torsten
| Torsten wrote: |
What is the difference between the following two sentences:
Please wait while the file is deleted.
Please wait while the file is being deleted. |
I see no problem with either version. In combination with the verb "wait", it not unusual to use the simple present tense in the active voice with the word "while", so why not also the simple present tense in the passive voice?
For example, here are a couple of active sentences:
- I'm in no hurry. I'll wait while you finish.
- Please wait while I check your answers.
In your passive sentences, I'd say the simple form looks at deletion more as a complete act and the continuous form looks at deletion as an activity.
.
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| Usage of 'right?' to replace 'isn't it?' or 'don't they?' | 'over' vs 'above' |
