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#2 (permalink) Fri Jan 09, 2009 14:00 pm How to read 'the' before 'United States'? |
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. The 'thee/thuh' rule is not a rule that must be followed; it is just a physical tendency of pronunciation. Sentence stress flows, for one thing, will modify the use. . _________________ Native English teacher at Mister Micawber's |
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Mister Micawber Language Coach

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 7441 Location: Yokohama, Japan
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#3 (permalink) Fri Jan 09, 2009 16:46 pm How to read 'the' before 'United States'? |
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That's interesting. I was taught for several years that you should say 'thee' before simple vowels. Then I could say "the Korean language" as "thee Korean language" depending on the sentence stress flow, couldn't I?
Thank you for your attention, sweetpumpkin |
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Sweetpumpkin I'm here quite often ;-)

Joined: 17 Dec 2007 Posts: 313 Location: S.Korea
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#4 (permalink) Fri Jan 09, 2009 18:09 pm US is part of America |
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Hi sweetpumpkin,
first of all "united states" is not the name of the country. It is United States of America. Referring to America there are south America and north America and Canada and Mexico... So it has become a customary name to point the fifty states together as "United States.." Got it..? _________________ Sahid59
Better tomorrow with better English |
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Sahid59 I'm here quite often ;-)

Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 353 Location: Chennai, South India
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#5 (permalink) Sat Jan 10, 2009 0:50 am How to read 'the' before 'United States'? |
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. I'm sorry, Sahid, but 'the United States' is indeed the name of my country. just as much as 'the United States of America', 'the USA', 'the US', and even 'America' (in context) are. All are common forms of the name of my country.
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| Then I could say "the Korean language" as "thee Korean language" depending on the sentence stress flow, couldn't I? |
You might indeed say that, SP. The 'thee/thuh' options simply occur with natural flow of fluent speech-- it is not something that the native speaker chooses consciously. . _________________ Native English teacher at Mister Micawber's |
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Mister Micawber Language Coach

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 7441 Location: Yokohama, Japan
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#6 (permalink) Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:05 am How to read 'the' before 'United States'? |
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| Pumpkin, strictly speaking, "United States" should be preceded by [ðə]. This is because the word "united" starts with the consonant sound [y] (not with a diphthong). Because [i] and [y] are basically the same sound (the vowel and consonant version of the same thing), sometimes you will find people assimilating the [ə] vowel in "the" to the [y] at the beginning of "united". However, they don't know they're doing this, and if you asked them how they pronounce "the" before that word, they will almost surely tell you [ðə]. |
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Jamie (K) I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 5334 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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#7 (permalink) Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:34 am How to read 'the' before 'United States'? |
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. Jamie, I have to differ-- there is no 'should' about it. It is not a rule at all, like a/an. It is simply an artifact of speech flow which has been documented. . _________________ Native English teacher at Mister Micawber's |
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Mister Micawber Language Coach

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 7441 Location: Yokohama, Japan
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#8 (permalink) Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:50 am How to read 'the' before 'United States'? |
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Thanks for the answers.
My grammar book, Practical English Usage by Michael Swan, says 'the' sounds thee before vowels and thuh before consonants. This 'rule' is not strict, I guess, because I've heard lots of times people speaking 'thee US'. Being an EFL learner, I think it would be nice if there is a kind of strict rule on it. We hear 'thee' sometimes while 'thuh' other times when natives speak. Surely, pronuncing 'the' cannot affect understanding the context a lot. But I have to choose, you know, when I speak English because I'm not good at speaking it so I have to choose when, where, how to say 'the'- I say it consciously. I hope someday I can say 'the' unconsciously.  |
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Sweetpumpkin I'm here quite often ;-)

Joined: 17 Dec 2007 Posts: 313 Location: S.Korea
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#9 (permalink) Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:56 am How to read 'the' before 'United States'? |
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. Why should there be one more 'rule', SP, when we already know that language is not rule-based and that the rules that are conceived by grammarians are (if valid) observations of usage, not prescriptions for it?
Would you have a rule such that a BrE speaker must pronounce 'tomato' or 'herb' in one way and an AmE speaker pronounce it in another way? . _________________ Native English teacher at Mister Micawber's |
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Mister Micawber Language Coach

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 7441 Location: Yokohama, Japan
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#10 (permalink) Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:56 am How to read 'the' before 'United States'? |
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| You can't go wrong saying [ðə] before any consonant sound and [ði] before any vowel sound. |
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Jamie (K) I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 5334 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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#11 (permalink) Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:58 am How to read 'the' before 'United States'? |
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. And you cannot go 'wrong' if you do not. . _________________ Native English teacher at Mister Micawber's |
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Mister Micawber Language Coach

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 7441 Location: Yokohama, Japan
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#12 (permalink) Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:04 am How to read 'the' before 'United States'? |
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| Mister Micawber wrote: |
| Why should there be one more 'rule', SP, when we already know that language is not rule-based and that the rules that are conceived by grammarians are (if valid) observations of usage, not prescriptions for it? |
Language is, in fact, rule based. The rules governing language operate whether or not prescriptive grammarians approve of them.
Even an utterance like, "You shoulda been told me," is rule-based. |
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Jamie (K) I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 5334 Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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#13 (permalink) Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:21 am How to read 'the' before 'United States'? |
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. Of course, Jamie, but you are switching horses on me. I have been speaking of prescriptive rules like 'you must pronounce the as ðə before consonant sounds'. . _________________ Native English teacher at Mister Micawber's |
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Mister Micawber Language Coach

Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 7441 Location: Yokohama, Japan
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#14 (permalink) Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:53 am How to read 'the' before 'United States'? |
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Of course I don't have such kind of rules you mentioned.
Korean has its pronunciation rules. Of course, we don't have almost no problem understanding each other even if we violate them. I expected the English have such rules. |
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Sweetpumpkin I'm here quite often ;-)

Joined: 17 Dec 2007 Posts: 313 Location: S.Korea
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#15 (permalink) Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:57 am How to read 'the' before 'United States'? |
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Very interesting. I've learnt quite a lot from your discussion. Thanks
BTW, "you are switching horses on me", what do you mean, Mr Micawber? |
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Iwanna I'm here quite often ;-)
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