Principles of freedom

[Alfwm]

I'd like to start a new topic called principles of freedom. Freedom is the best value from west civilization, but living in freedom requires some principles. As not religion is ruling in west, and there is not a law of freedom, it is needed some ethics to live in freedom. I want to share a principle of freedom that we repeat in our contry, and I think it's universal. The priciple says:
My freedom ends when begins the one of my neighbor.
This sentence is translated from spanish, and it could be better written in good english
I encourage members of the forums to add more principles that could be called of freedom.
Alfwm

[Happytofita]

[Jamie (K)]

[Prezbucky]

Notice that freedom does not guarantee wealth... it is the PURSUIT of happiness, not a guarantee for success.

There are some in this country who believe they're entitled to nice cars, big houses, and money. But in a free market, we are entitled to what we can afford, what our personal finances allow us to purchase. So those who don't have things but covet such things sometimes whine about being treated unfairly, as if their own choices had no bearing on their current economic predicament. Sadly the result of such whining/moping can be an attitude reflecting the idea that only luck brings prosperity and, thus, that money and property should be arbitrarily distributed. In other words, they are blind to their shortcomings (and their responsibility in such shortcomings) and believe they have a right to other people's money, even though to enforce such thinking would mean a decrease in the economic liberty of those from whom they would steal.

So the right to life -- obvious: we have a right to be protected from crime or foreign assailants or anyone who would do us serious harm.

Liberty -- we have the right to do as we please, so long as what we do does not harm others.

The Pursuit of Happiness -- we have the right to make money and own property or (outside of those big ones) to do whatever titillates us, whatever makes us feel successful -- again, as long as we are lawful. This does not include a right to take someone else's money or property.

Three cheers for Life, Liberty and Property!

And as a caveat, I recognize the need for some welfare measures -- as when a person is fired through no fault if his own, or injured and unable to work for a while (in these cases we should help people out for a few months or until the person finds a job; or until the injured person is healthy and can once again pursue and perform vocational duties). And if a person is mentally unable or permanently injured... obviously help is warranted. I'd prefer charitable organizations pick up the slack, but as long as it's necessary, we should have a rudimentary public safety net.

The worst thing is for someone who is able to become dependent on the largesse of the taxpayer... not cool IMO. There is plenty of opportunity for those who will put forth a good effort.
_________________
Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Alfwm]

[Alfwm]

Principles of freedom as far as the West is concerned:

[Prezbucky]

Absolutely: respect for others and their property.

It'd be nice if everyone followed that code of respect/honesty/honor.

Instead we get parents suing people who, in the act of defending their homes/families/property, shot and killed the plaintiff parents' offspring.

I want to say to the parents, " You didn't teach him to respect others and their property -- that's why he's dead. Those people had a right to defend themselves from your criminal son."

But sometimes it's best just to shake your head and hold your tongue.

Instead I would say, "I'm sorry for your loss" and keep the judgmental thoughts to myself. hehe
_________________
Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Alfwm]

There's lack of tolerance. There are many situations with lack of tolerance. In the city where I live (Bogotá, Colombia) a car can knock others down if they do not cross the street by the bridge. They say the pedestrian was reckles. Some drivers see the pedestrian crossing the street under the bridge, they acelerate the car and the pedestrian is dead!!! . They don't take any blame for that. The law don't protect human rights. First is the right to life. I f you are reckless you don't deserve death penalty, but here it happens so. that's intolerance. In the opsite side many drivers stop their cars when they see a dog almost under the wheels. They are much more tolerants.
Another principle of freedom could be tolerance.

[Happytofita]

[NinaZara]

What about freedom to love?

It is just that sometimes I cannot believe, in this modern era, we still have people suffer from forbidden love.

Sigh...

[Alfwm]

[quote="NinaZara"]What about freedom to love?

It is just that sometimes I cannot believe, in this modern era, we still have people suffer from forbidden love.

Sigh
I'm very traditional in love matters. In every country the facts could be different. I speak from what I see in my country.
Here youngs don't worry about love, not about marriage. They impossed free love. Most time women decide, direct, no men. I mean in love matters women are ruling, and in many other fields.
My children were educated in a more traditional way. I prefered they studied first.
So I can't contribute much about this theme. But what I see now that I have internet is that there is entire world of possibilities in all fields. Of course also in love.
What I can say in this moment as principle is that love is very free in these days.
Although there are many traditional couples now, most women prefer not to marry.!!!

[Happytofita]

[Alfwm]

[Prezbucky]

Re: pedestrians crossing the road.

I can't tell you how often I've been angered by pedestrians crossing the road when I have a green light. IMO, roads were built for drivers, and while (obviously) drivers should not try to hit pedestrians, pedestrians should not cross the road when traffic has a green light. Especially frustrating are pedestrians who take their time in crossing the road when their pace impedes the flow of traffic. Many times I've yelled to myself, "Hurry up!" and/or "Get out of the way!"

Roads were built for cars and pedestrians should wait until the way is clear of traffic before crossing the road. And if they cross against green-light traffic, they should hurry.
_________________
Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Jamie (K)]

Tom, that doesn't bother me that much, because I think in my city people have a respect for the weight, speed and deadliness of cars. That, or they fear the savagery of the drivers.

The situation that annoys me is this: You've got a building entrance 25 feet from a relatively empty parking lot. The street or passage in front of the building entrance is jammed up, so that if anyone stops, no one can get around him. There is no bad weather. And nonetheless, some courtly jerk decides to stop at the building entrance and let a line of traffic wait behind him while he drops his perfectly able-bodied wife right at the entrance, so she can wait for him there. He wastes everybody's time for no reason.

I don't mind being delayed when someone does this for a dottering old granny, but traffic shouldn't be hung up because some inconsiderate gentleman doesn't want his strong, able wife to walk a few yards.

That's when I really feel like ramming into somebody!