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 #2 (permalink) Thu Mar 05, 2009 15:52 pm What is the place of grammar in language teaching? |
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This was on some other sites and I thought it would be good to get people's thoughts on here. Let's see what you all think about these 2 questions.
What is the place of grammar in language teaching? Grammar is an essential part of a language. The teaching of grammar is crucial in language teaching.
How necessary is it for a teacher of English as a Foreign Language to have a knowledge of English grammar? It is imperative that a teacher knows what he/she is teaching. If you do not know a subject how can you teach it?
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 Milanya
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| #3 (permalink) Thu Mar 05, 2009 16:03 pm What is the place of grammar in language teaching? |
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I don't agree with you, Milanya. Let's classify the teaching process in two categories:
1. learning with a tutor;
2. self-teaching.
Whereas studying and knowing grammar is somewhat acceptable in the first case, but not necessary, it is next to none in the second one. Although teaching and learning grammar is widely spread around the globe, I believe this approach is improper and rusty.
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SkiIucK
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| #4 (permalink) Thu Mar 05, 2009 16:15 pm What is the place of grammar in language teaching? |
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Tom c asked :
How necessary is it for a teacher of English as a Foreign Language to have a knowledge of English grammar?
SkiIucK, do you mean you would hire a tutor who does not know grammar? And pay for the teaching? Why?!
Will you agree to be operated on by a surgeon who does not know anatomy?
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Milanya
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| #5 (permalink) Thu Mar 05, 2009 17:56 pm What is the place of grammar in language teaching? |
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I pretty much agree with Dimitar. There is no point in dissecting a language into grammar, vocabulary, phonetics, etc. Teaching grammar is very ineffective and usually frustrating to the person 'being taught'. Instead of trying to teach grammar it's much better to focus on learning the language. More on this here: How to learn English grammar?
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Torsten
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| #6 (permalink) Thu Mar 05, 2009 17:57 pm What is the place of grammar in language teaching? |
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You got me wrong, I guess.
Firstly, I cannot imagine me hiring a tutor. Secondly, as I already said, I believe grammar-related teaching methods are unsuitable and burdening. It's a real onus to study a language for years because of following a trite system. And since I don't deem grammar the backbone of language, your simile is inappropriate.
My goal is not to offend any tutor here who believes as you do; quite the contrary actually, I respect all of you.
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SkiIucK
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| #7 (permalink) Thu Mar 05, 2009 17:59 pm What is the place of grammar in language teaching? |
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I think Dimitar is living proof of the fact that you can achieve excellent English language skills by listening, reading, analyzing and imitating.
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Torsten
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| #8 (permalink) Thu Mar 05, 2009 18:13 pm What is the place of grammar in language teaching? |
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Hi
in my opinion, grammar should be the last step of learning.
Like children do, listening and repeating are the best ways of learning. Of course I agree with Torsten.
This is my experience of learning and teaching. |
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Chesman
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| #9 (permalink) Thu Mar 05, 2009 18:27 pm What is the place of grammar in language teaching? |
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| So most think that Grammar is not essential for language teaching or have i got it wrong? |
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Tom c
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| #10 (permalink) Thu Mar 05, 2009 18:28 pm What is the place of grammar in language teaching? |
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| Torsten wrote: |
| I think Dimitar is living proof of the fact that you can achieve excellent English language skills by listening, reading, analyzing and imitating. |
Does he teach English?
One should learn any way that works for him or her. With or without grammar. Besides, one does not have to study grammar rules, one just has to follow them. IMO rules are hard to follow if you do not know them. Wholistic approach does not work for everybody, although, it works for some. All people are different, and Dimitar (whoever he is) definitely has a better memory than I do. I prefer understanding to memorizing. This is MY PERSONAL preference as a learner.
However, if a person decides to teach, then the rules of knowledge are different.
How necessary is it for a teacher of English as a Foreign Language to have a knowledge of English grammar?
The key word is teacher. Do you really think that a teacher can teach not knowing the rules?
Let's ask a teacher's opinion.
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Milanya
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| #11 (permalink) Thu Mar 05, 2009 18:31 pm What is the place of grammar in language teaching? |
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| As for the second question I would have thought it is essential for a Teacher to have a good knowledge of English grammar. |
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Tom c
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| #12 (permalink) Thu Mar 05, 2009 18:32 pm What is the place of grammar in language teaching? |
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| Tom c wrote: |
| So most think that Grammar is not essential for language teaching or have i got it wrong? |
Me does not agreeing who think grammer have none be important.
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Milanya
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| #13 (permalink) Thu Mar 05, 2009 19:29 pm What is the place of grammar in language teaching? |
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| Milanya wrote: |
| Does he teach English? |
The question is how effective 'teaching' is. I don't think that anyone can 'teach' a language. You can only 'learn' a language. Your teacher might know and explain all the grammar rules to you and you still won't be able to speak or understand the language. Beside, how exactly do you 'teach' grammar?
PS: This is Dimitar: Dimitar Mitko
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Torsten
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| #14 (permalink) Thu Mar 05, 2009 20:47 pm What is the place of grammar in language teaching? |
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| Torsten wrote: |
The question is how effective 'teaching' is. |
I assume, he does not teach. He is a learner of English language and so am I. We (Dimitar and Milanya) have different ways of learning, which is fine. However the requirements for learners and requirements for teachers are different.
Effectiveness of teaching (of any subject) and thus of learning depends on many variables. And it is very inportant how knowledgeable a teacher is (knowledgeable in both the subject matter and teaching strategies). Feedback is also necessary for learning.
If I understand you correctly, you think that teachers are not necessary for learning and students would be better off without them? (Why do schools exist, I wonder? And why so many people come here with their questions? They expect that somebody knows an answer and will share it, thus becoming a teacher.)
I respectfully disagree. A goog knowledgeable teacher can be of great help for a student of English as well as any other subject. Provided that a teacher is indeed knowledgeable.
Autodidacts do exist, but there are not so many of them as you believe. Not everyone is Dimitar (sorry, SkiIucK, but he started using you as an example first) , everybody learns his or her own way. Not everybody can learn wholistically, some find it helpful to know how it is made inside. You, I supmise, perceive a language as an entity, but there are some people who see a language as an assembly of different parts. And for these people teaching/learning process works only if they can fing out how the pieces fit together.
| Quote: |
| Your teacher might know and explain all the grammar rules to you and you still won't be able to speak or understand the language. |
A teacher who cannot explain well enough for a student to understand, is not a very good teacher. Maybe for the lack of knowledge. You know the way of learning that works for you, a good teacher knows many ways and can find correct ones for different students. If you can learn something your way, does not necessary mean that this way is good for me or someone else. We are all different.
PS. I am not a teacher, but I have been lucky enough to have great teachers and I know how much a good knowledgeable teacher can achieve.
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Milanya
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| #15 (permalink) Fri Mar 06, 2009 22:54 pm What is the place of grammar in language teaching? |
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The only thing any teacher can achieve is to inspire another person to learn. Yes, there are a lot of people who come here and ask question and answer questions. This is an essential part of any learning process. However, the initial question was 'what is the place of grammar in language teaching'. If somebody comes here onto the forum to ask a question, they don't want to 'be taught'. They want to learn.
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| If you are a Native English speaker and not a teacher are you here for fun? | Is the MLA Intent on "Dumbing Down" English? |
