| I Strongly prefer English Literature | John Milton |
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 #16 (permalink) Fri May 08, 2009 19:20 pm Christians And Muslims United |
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I do not like that picture of that bloody fellow (no pun intended) one bit, and I agree wholeheartedly that is way, way far from the teachings of Islam. In Malaysia, we even have a fatwa saying that smoking cigarettes is haram [forbidden] because it is a form of self-harm - that didn't keep people from smoking though...:roll:
| Freshmeat wrote: |
you haven't had enough information for Islam
Islam says that one of the most important thing is peace in the world.Actually you could not see real Islam because All of important tv channels and web-sites have built by Christians!They do not show real Islam |
Yes, you are right, peace is paramount in Islam. There is even a verse in the Koran that says, if people want to incline towards reconciliation, you should incline with them, because peace is so precious that anybody that reaches out for peace, you should reach out for it too.
And then you TRUST in God.
Because if there is an ulterior motive, if people want to deceive us, we don't have to worry about that, that is not our concern, God's enough for us (tawakkal alallah).
It is fascinating to me that we forget about this. It's like the interesting phenomenon among students who learn Physics, they swear by the three laws of Newton, but they keep on making mistakes when the time comes to apply them. It's almost certain that they don't actually believe in it.
Oh, well, maybe it's just human nature.
But I do wish Muslims could find it in their heart to stop blaming the Christians. For the love of God, there is too much hatred amongst us already. Do you seriously think that those so-called Christians are carrying the word of Jesus when they spread lies and hatred about Islam?
| Freshmeat wrote: |
| I am a Muslim and i approve that we have some bad rules which had not included by Qur'an. |
Yes, in the above article I posted, you will read about Rasullullah PBUH warning us against extremism.
| Freshmeat wrote: |
Finally i want to show you one picture
xxxxxx
it shows you a woman without veil and hagia sophia mosque in the backround.It means that we live without difficult Arabic rules , we live only Islamic rules |
I will have to remind you that there is nothing wrong with wearing the hijab. It is a form of modesty. It is like saying, my beauty is my business! If one can say the same about one who flaunts her beauty, I cannot see why we cannot say the same about these absolutely beautiful, confident, self-respecting, principled women?
The nuns wear it too, are they oppressed? Absolutely not. If one chooses to worship her lord in a certain way, it is absolutely her business to do so.
Here is an interesting article about the Burka and the Bikini.
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The Burka and the Bikini
The bikini and the burka are so far to the extremes that they meet again. They both serve to reduce women, from a person, to an object.
By Aziz H. Poonawalla, October 20, 2002
Islam has respect for women hard-wired into its fabric. While Islam makes much of the equal status of women to men, it also specifically acknowledges that women are different. This is different from the rhetoric of Feminism in the West, which asserts that women are "equal" to men. The difference is subtle but profound.
Along these lines, comparisons of women's status, especially with regard to oppression, can be made between Islam and western culture. The degradation of women in Saudi Arabia, for example, is reprehensible, and only defended by those few Muslims who have succumbed to tribal impulses and the inexplicable allure of ignorance, lacking basic human decency as well as an coherent understanding of their own faith. Westerners and Muslims (and Western Muslims) alike can agree on the obvious fact that the burka, as practiced by Wahabis and the Saudi theocracy, is oppression in its purest form.
But if we Muslims are to cast a critical eye at ourselves, surely the West can do the same? For example, in the matter of the bikini. Far from being an expression of freedom, the bikini is as much a tool of oppression as the burka.
Here follows a justification of this statement, from an Islamic perspective (rather, of of many possible Islamic perspectives. Your mileage may vary). But to understand the nature of the bikini, we must revisit the burka.
What is the burka? As routinely imposed on women, it is a full-length one-piece garment that covers the woman from head to toe, almost invariably black. Usually the face is uncovered, except in extreme cases where there is a veil or even worse, a metal faceplate. This is almost exclusively a Sunni-Wahabi innovation of recent times, whereas if you look at the modes of modest dress in other Islamic societies you see much more healthy interpretations, ranging from the two-piece colorful ridah garments worn by women in my own community, the Dawoodi Bohras, to fully-Westernized business attire (jacket, pants) topped with headdress or scarf. Many muslims living in America use a particular form of headscarf known as hijab, which is a shawl that drapes around the women's head and shoulders. It's a matter or ethnic and cultural variance as to how much hair is visible, or whether the shoulders are covered, or whether it's black or white or some other color. There is an incredible variety of which non-Muslim commentators are almost universally ignorant of - it's no exaggeration to say that the variety of Islamic female fashion easily matches if not exceeds the variety of fashion found in Western societies. In fact, since many Muslim comunities are Western, there is a healthy mixing between these two fashion universes, with many innovative and (dare I say it?) attractive innovations.
However, none of these fashionable garments are worth anything if they are imposed against the woman's will. However, apart from a few cases (worst offender being Saudi Arabia, homeland of Wahabism), modest dress is part of the culture and not a cruel imposition.
It's important to emphasise that the Qur'an places restrictions on womens' and men's dress (both). These restrictions are solely for modesty, whose importance as a virtue is comon to Judaism and Christianity. Attractiveness is NOT the same as sexiness. It is possible to be attractive and yet retain modesty, but sexiness is inherently immodest, because it promotes women as sex objects. Modesty is retaining your dignity - and maintaining your identity as a person, to be respected on the basis of your character. Webster's dictionary defines it as "humility respecting one's own merit." The concept of merit is intrinsic to the Islamic concept of modesty as well.
Many women choose burka freely, as well as lesser variations such as hijab or ridah. Even the most oppressive-seeming burka with metal faceplate and voluminous robes is actually a weapon in the hands of a woman when chosen willingly. My own wife wears ridah full-time, even to medical school, though I was initially against the idea. But I supported her in her desire to achieve her moodesty, and the result has been astonishing. But the benefits she derives from wearing ridah are a topic for some other time.
Contrast the Qur'anic prescription of modest dress with the tribal custom of imposing oppressive dress on women. It's not exaggeration to say that Islam, Judaism, and Christianity brought the first concepts of equality between genders to tribal peoples who at the time had decidedly primitive notions of gender roles. To take one self-aimed example, pre-Islamic customs of burying first-born daughters alive was stridently condemned by Muhammad SAW. Yet these practices still persist in modern times - for example in Nigeria, where a woman was sentenced to death by stoning for adultery. Also recently a woman was sentenced to be buried up to her neck in sand and again stoned, for having a child out of wedlock. And there is the case of the gang-rape of an innocent girl in Pakistan, and riots in India.
These kind of barbaric decisions are always made in remote villages by a band of grizzled elder men, who invariably call themselves an "Islamic court". The truth is that these are immoral primitive tribal customs, which are used by the tribal elders as a power play of enforcing their authority. They are wrapped in poorly-argued Islamic reasoning, often bundled with some selective out-of-context Qur'anic verse, so that no one dares argue. But this is not Islamic, it's purely a primitive cultural practice, with its sole aim as a power play of I-have-control-over-you.
These tribal impulses of control are the root cause of the Saudi burka, and the absurd punishments in Nigeria and Pakistan, and the concept of honor killings. They also, to a lesser degree, are the underlying philosophy behind the bikini, which is the real subject of this essay.
The bikini was invented in 1946 by an engineer in Paris, Louis Reard (here's a history link via Google). The historical record doesn't mention whether Reard was grizzled or an elder, but he was definitely male, and the bikini was a invention specifically designed to "stir the masses". What the bikini does is reduce the woman to a caricature of sexual desire - by revealing almost every part of her anatomy, it completes obliterates any trace of modesty (and hence, undermines her respect in her own merit).
It's true that some women wear bikinis because they have pride in their bodies and don't care (or need) what men think. But a larger fraction of women wearing them are doing so because they want to influence the response of men in some way. Jim Henley called this the "sexual power if women" but it is analogous to appeasement. Whatever power the woman has, is being bent to serve the desires of the other party (in this case, titillation of the male). One of the major flaws in Jim's argument is unstated but implicit assumption that the bikini is an expression of female power - but in fact, it's an abject surrender. Is it really true that women have to strip down to two strategic strips of cloth just to excercise their power?
The bikini and the burka are so far to the extremes that they meet again. They both serve to reduce women, from a person, to an object. In the case of the burka, that object is "slave". In the case of the bikini, that object is "sex". The burka is forced upon women, for fear of consequences, whereas women are induced to wear the bikini, out of desire for consequences. But in both cases those consequences are to please males.
The bikini and the burka can both be used by women as expressions of power and independence. The burka, or ridah, or hijab, can be a powerful weapon of modesty, if chosen freely (and in fact, it is in Western countries like America that Qur'anic modes of modesty in women's dress do finally take on the meaning they were intended to have, because of the freedom of choice. America is the greatest Islamic country on earth). Likewise, the woman wearing a bikini solely out of her personal pride in her appearance has turned the bikini into a weapon of self-expression.
That said, the bikini is not Islamic, because it is immodest. Whether you care about modesty or not of course is irrelevant to the issue of whethr you are being oppressed or not.
But in the West, many women wear bikinis to try and attract the attention of men. And in the East, many women are forced to wear burka, especially cruelly oppressive versions. In that case, both are wrong and immoral[1], and this is why I claim that they are equally oppressive.
[1] I am not saying that the woman wearing a bikini is immoral, though that opinion is shared by many, not just Muslims. We can leave that open to debate. But for the purposes of this essay, the manifestation of men's control over women, is what I am labeling immoral. I am careful to only use the word "immoral" in the context of forcing women to wear burka, or the power play which makes women want to wear a bikini to please men. The burka and bikini themselves are simply pieces of cloth, nothing more.
Aziz H. Poonawalla runs the weblog City of Brass. |
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NinaZara
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| #17 (permalink) Sun May 10, 2009 9:26 am Christians And Muslims United |
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But instead of entering into this fray, shouldn't we concede that religion doesn't precede us but it is just a mental creation by humans to wrap the basic animal instinct of superiority arisen out of fear of extinction?
:)
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 Gray
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| #18 (permalink) Tue May 12, 2009 14:53 pm Christians And Muslims United |
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If you only care to elaborate, I will be glad to read more of what you have in mind, G.
I do not believe that my religion is a "mental creation" as you have called it. If you do not believe in a greater power, then we do not have the same platform to even argue about this theory you have. But one thing I noticed about the atheists or seculars, they are always under the influence of others. And this is the thing that I absolutely love about my religion, I don't have to answer to anyone but God. I am free. And my impression of the atheist is, they do not believe in God not necessarily because they think, but because they are afraid of being called delusional by other human beings.
Whether you like it or not, man are inclined to be influenced by others, and my religion freed me from it. :)
Jesus - peace and blessings be upon him said, you will be persecuted in my name, and people of the world will hate you, because people of truth are often hated and despised by people of falsehood.
So to all believers out there, do not be afraid or ashamed even if people despise you or think you are delusional.
Also, I would like to remind you that religion is not the only culprit for humans' sufferings, history is here to prove that millions have died under the glorious atheism too. You only have to look up.
In fact, in the Muslim world, it is exactly the abandonment of the teachings of Islam that is causing all the sufferings.
Humans are at wrong here, not religion. Religion is just a sincere advice, just like my prophet, Muhammad PBUH said three times, "Addinu annaseehah", "Religion is sincere advice, religion is sincere advice, religion is sincere advice."
When Khalid Al-Walid, the famous military genius in the Muslim world killed prisoners of war unjustly, Muhammad PBUH cried, "God, I am innocent of what Khalid has done". This is what he cried and so I will say this too, Islam is innocent of what is being done in its name. We reject it just as the Christians now reject the gross intolerance, the crusades and every other crime that was done in the name of Christianity in the pre-modern world.
We reject it. |
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NinaZara
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| #19 (permalink) Wed May 13, 2009 1:02 am Christians And Muslims United |
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| I would tell you just one word ....that Islam is the religion of peace ; forgiveness , happiness and success .If any person understand Islam correctly then enter into , he feel the rest which many people need it in this era ..therefore I thank my Allah who lead me to be a Muslim ...Islam is peace ..Islam is not dangers or disease |
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Karim
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| #20 (permalink) Wed May 13, 2009 4:36 am Christians And Muslims United |
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Dear Saint Mullah Thomas Wahed The Great, founder of the unified ChristIslamic Brotherhood of Man
Congratulations! You have founded another false religion. When you recruit a follower from Muslims, it means, I believe, you destroyed his afterlife. Because a Muslim believes Jesus (PBUH) is the one of the great prophets mentioned in the Qur'an, not son of God. Islam is not compatible to compromise. When one denies or contradicts a single verse he cuts off all his ties with Islam. Believing divinity of Jesus (PBUH)contradicts many verses, the very core of Islam and inevitably it also means accusing the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) of lying.
We already know how to live in peace with Christians and proved this in Ottoman era for six centuries. What about Spain? They forced all the Muslim Moors to convert, and killed all those who did not agree, not a single Muslim survived. Your bargaining chip is nonsense; you are asking conversion to your newly founded religion in return for something we already had. |
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Ekrem
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| #21 (permalink) Wed May 13, 2009 6:35 am Christians And Muslims United |
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| you're right ekrem about what you said ...... |
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Karim
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| #22 (permalink) Wed May 13, 2009 10:32 am Christians And Muslims United |
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People are made prone to misjudge Islam, woman dress is one of them. Things look very different when you look at them from a different angle or perspective. Humans are not immune from making mistakes and misjudging but God is. He knows best, but we cannot always understand the divine wisdom and even we can see the most ugly as the most beautiful. So we have to calibrate our perceptions in accordance with the absolute truths and the divine values conveyed to us by the prophets. That's why the prophets were neccessary. We are intelligent beings, but intelligence is like a good horse, it is the heart or soul which rides it. The heart should be obedient to God, otherwise it rides the horse in the wrong directions to the calamities.
Let's listen to Mary Walker, frm BBC:
"When I joined the team of Living Islam two years ago, my perception of Islam was dominated by prejudice and ignorance, and I found its treatment of women abhorrent. To me the veil symbolised the oppression of women, making them invisible, anonymous and voiceless, and the cause of this oppression lay in the will to perpetuate the family and maintain a patriarchal framework – the very basis of an Islamic Society. I thought women were entirely submerged by divine justification of their role as wife and mother. "
“It is not liberation where you say women should go naked. It is just oppression, because men want to see them naked.” Just as to us the veil represents Muslim oppression, to them miniskirts and plunging necklines represent oppression. They said that men are cheating women in the West. They let us believe we’re liberated but enslave us to the male gaze. However much I insist on the right to choose what I wear, I cannot deny that the choice is often dictated by what will make my body more attractive to men. Women cannot separate their identity from their appearance and so we remain trapped in the traditional feminine world, where the rules are written by men. " – MARY WALKER, BBC, an excerpt from “The Seeds of My Own Re-evaluations” |
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Ekrem
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| #23 (permalink) Sat May 23, 2009 4:33 am Christians And Muslims United |
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| Ekrem wrote: |
| We already know how to live in peace with Christians and proved this in Ottoman era for six centuries. What about Spain? |
Well, Spain was an interesting situation. The Moors conquered the country in a jihad and forced Christians and Jews there to live under a dhimmi. They had to wear special odd-looking clothing, and the Jews were forced by the Moors to wear special identifying patches on their clothes, much like the ones the Nazis forced them to wear centuries later. They were forced to pay the jizya, which in many places was collected with a ritual slap on the face. The Muslims were anything but tolerant of other religions when they ruled Spain, and they are not tolerant of other religions today in places where they hold majority political power.
| Ekrem wrote: |
| They forced all the Muslim Moors to convert, and killed all those who did not agree, not a single Muslim survived. Your bargaining chip is nonsense; you are asking conversion to your newly founded religion in return for something we already had. |
Sorry, but Christianity predates Islam by about 700 years, so it's Islam that's the newly founded (largely plagiarized) religion. And it's quite understandable that people who were defeated in a jihad, and who were ruled oppressively by outsiders in their own country, would eventually stand up and rebel. The Spaniards lived under the Moors' oppression much like that under which Christians in Algeria, Morocco, Egypt and many other countries live today. It was just the Moors' bad luck that they were oppressing the majority religion in Spain and had not succeeded in forcing or humiliating the majority of Spaniards into accepting their violent, heretical religion. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #24 (permalink) Sat May 23, 2009 13:23 pm Christians And Muslims United |
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Hello,
People say many horrible things about Islam. Some say it oppresses women, others say it teaches violence, etc. But still it is the fastest growing religion in the world... A point to ponder. :roll:
Take care,
A. Mouhcine |
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Happytofita
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| #25 (permalink) Sat May 23, 2009 20:16 pm Christians And Muslims United |
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Hello everyone,
Well, I am Muslim and I am proud of it and I think everyone should be proud of his/her religion. The main point of this topic is to learn to accept the others the way they are - as long as they worship God- and even if they don't why not help them see the truth. Jewdaism, Islam and Christianity never directed their followers to use violence or to kill. Don't blame the religion for what people do. There are a lot of Muslims that don't even deserve to be human beings. Use common sense people, do you think that God of the three heavenly religions would order people to kill? I don't believe so, although I have honestly never read anything about jews or Christians.
Acceptance is the key, people.
Thanks,
Basma. |
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Basmamostafa
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Karim
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| #27 (permalink) Sun May 24, 2009 6:49 am Christians And Muslims United |
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If the religious differences are too many and/or too great to unite Christianity and Islam, per se... we can still work harder to use the common aspects of those religions to build a greater sense of brotherhood.
Christians oppressed Muslims and Muslims oppressed Christians. Has a mullah (or other Islamic state leader) ever sat down with a
Christian leader (or a Christian/pluralist state leader) to share a meal and converse, in earnest and with mutual respect, to concentrate on our similarities INSTEAD OF our differences?
Why is it that those in power are generally such a$$holes that they feel they must win an argument, and belittle the "opposition" in the process?
Why does anyone have to win, and why do they argue? If there are differences in the religions that cannot be reconciled, okay -- point taken. But rather than dwell on those differences, maybe we need to look for elements that can unite us. Because I'd put good money on the idea that Yahweh/Jesus/Mohammed/Allah would not think too highly of the number who have died chiefly, or indirectly, because we were obsessed with changing the other side to make them like us... an effort borne largely of focusing on differences rather than shared beliefs.
While both Jesus and Mohammed wanted everyone to follow them, I would think that they wouldn't condone killing those who choose not to follow.
Let's think like this instead... a simple anecdote:
Tom: Do you eat pork? There's a special on ham at the grocery store.
Omar: No, I don't eat pork. I prefer beef or chicken.
Tom: Okay, why don't we get some chicken then?
Omar: Okay, sounds good.
Thusly begins a friendship... and these two bring their other friends in. This budding relationship came about because they did not give up when faced with an obstacle -- they found each other worthy of compromise and found common ground. These two, through their established friends and associates, may well bring together a rather large group of people.
Maybe if we persevere in finding things that can bring us together, we can begin to write brighter chapters in human history.
And, of course, a cure for sociopathy would also help. hehe
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Prezbucky
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| #28 (permalink) Sun May 24, 2009 8:34 am Christians And Muslims United |
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| Quote: |
| Maybe if we persevere in finding things that can bring us together, we can begin to write brighter chapters in human history. |
That's so true, Tom. And, also something that can teach us to be able to tolerate differences existing in the world. We're different but also very similar.
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Rosalisa
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| #29 (permalink) Sun May 24, 2009 19:59 pm Christians and Muslims united |
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Dear Jammie,
You say terrible things about dhimnitude, jizye, etc. I don’t think you are slanderous, but you are misled by the enemies of Islam. However, you are not still an innocent deceived ignorant, because you don’t use your mind and investigate if the slanders you were told or you read really reflect any reality. Please learn what dhimnitude, jizye, citizenship, justice are from reliable sources like, e.g. :
http://www.khilafah.com/index.php/the-khilafah/non-muslims/499-dhimmi-non-muslims-living-in-the-khilafah
If you read it you would realize in none of the Christian countries throughout history including today have been given so much freedom, justice, well treatment, full citizenship to the minorities as the Muslim countries had granted. A Christian people converted to Islam after they were freed from İslamic rule. Do you know why? A Muslim envoy came to them and said: “We got jizye from you in return for protecting you and your property from all the assaults. But as being defeated we fell in a position unable to keep our promise, so we are returning your jizye.” Muslim citizens had to pay zakat and other taxes based on their creed, and so non-Muslims citizens had to pay naturally some tax not based on Islamic creed that they didn’t believe. In the late years of the Ottomans, Christians and Jewish citizens became so richer than Muslims, because a Muslim citizen was doing military service for five years at least and falling martyrs in defense of their country and very few of them returning home while non-Muslim citizens are doing lucrative business. I wish I had freedom today in my own country as much as dhimnies of the past. Leave aside the dhimnie, lets look at the slaves who must be, one would think, in much worse status.
In the Ottoman Empire the slavery in the sense of its ruthless Western practice was unimaginable. Slaves could achieve very high statuses if they deserved. It was not legitimate to capture slaves without a formal decleration of war, which could only be issued by the Sultan. Ottoman Sultans wished slavery to die a slow and quite death, for they considered it was the policy of Islam for slavery. So, they obviously authorized and allowed no one to launch raids for the purpose of capturing slaves. Slave rights were ranked so highly that those who kept slaves could find themselves slaves of their own slaves. So people did not wish to procure any slave at all.
French scientist of politics Bruno Etienne, who lectures at Aix-en-Provence University, one of the most acclaimed Middle East Authorities, says:
“The slaves in the Ottoman Empire possessed more freedom than so called free people of today.”
Where are you? Oh Ottomans! If only you knew how much we missed you, the world missed you.
Jamie also wrote:
Sorry, but Christianity predates Islam by about 700 years, so it's Islam that's the newly founded (largely plagiarized) religion.
Nobody denied that Christianity predates Islam. There is no conflict between original Christianity and Islam. Origins are the same. But the Arians, the true Christians were massacred and their true bibles burnt, only Barnaba’s bible and dead sea scrolls, as far as I know, were discovered recently and they both verify Qur’an. You criminally underrate Islam, Jamie. If you are so sure that Islam or its holy book Qur’an is largely plagiarized, why don’t you tell Vatican your discovery, because they have been unable to find any reasonable explanation about the origin of Qur’an, they would be so much elated by your discovery. Tell me Jamie, how a so called “largely plagiarized” Qur’an can reveal the following fact fourteen centuries ago, which I excerpted from Dr Gary Miller, The Amazing Quran.
o For example, one verse in the Qur'an (Surah al-Anbiya 21:30) reads;
o "Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together, then We clove them asunder, and made from water every living thing? Will they not then believe?"
o Ironically, this very information is exactly what they awarded the 1973 Noble Prize for - to a couple of unbelievers. The Qur'an reveals the origin of the universe - how it began from one piece - and mankind continues to verify this revelation, even up to now.
Can you find it in the old and new Testaments, Jamie? There are many others like this as well and there is nothing conflicting the proven scientific facts in the Qur’an. So you must fear it if you are wise because it has so many verses related to your case.
What about European plagiaries from the works of Moors and other Muslim erudites to which you owed your Renaissance?
OK I understand you believe one is right if he is powerful, but we Muslim believe one is powerful when he is right. Don’t take for granted the victory when you manage to initiate Armegeddon war. Our prophet (pbuh) prophesied this war also, and that we will win and Jesus (pbuh) will be on the Muslim side as a Muslim leader. All of the prophesies of our prophet Mohammad (pbuh) have so far come true when the time was due. Oh poor Jamie! Why are you so cruel to yourself, you will be judged by God not by a pope when you die. Think twice when you talk about Islam. Please don’t judge it by the sources of its enemies and the deeds of their puppets like Wahhabies, Taliban, terrorists, etc which were all founded by the enemies of Islam to show Islam to the world as ugly as possible and provide some pretexts for waging war on innocent Muslim civilians and to stop its growing so fast.
Anyway Jamie, you are at least very successful in provoking the lazy English students like me to write and make practice. |
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Ekrem
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| #30 (permalink) Mon May 25, 2009 2:27 am Christians And Muslims United |
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Ekrem, dhimmi and jizya are tools of subjugation with the intention of making it as painful, humiliating and inconvenient as possible not to convert to Islam. And in Muslim societies throughout history, non-Muslims who refused to convert or live under dhimmi and pay the jizya have been routinely murdered, as are many Muslims today who convert to Christianity. That death penalty for conversion is even written into the legal codes of many Muslim countries today.
And you made this ridiculous statement: "If you read it you would realize in none of the Christian countries throughout history including today have been given so much freedom, justice, well treatment, full citizenship to the minorities as the Muslim countries had granted." You clearly don't have much experience outside the Muslim world, or you would know that Western democracies today provide all citizens -- including their Muslim minorities -- greater freedom, justice, treatment and full citizenship than majority Muslim countries provide even to Muslims! In other words, the Christians in Europe and North America treat their Muslim citizens and residents better than Muslims treat Muslims in the Islamic world.
The Arians were not the original Christians, but appeared 250 to 300 years after Christ, and their ideas didn't reflect the tradition of the apostles or even Jesus's own statements. Like much of what Muslims believe about Christianity, it is a false concoction. Mohammed had to make up falsehoods about the Jewish and Christian scriptures in order to justify his false claim to be a prophet.
As for the coincidental "scientific revelations" revealed in the Koran, we have a fitting proverb for things like that in English: Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Mohammed also had many ridiculous "scientific revelations", such as that camel urine was a health remedy, that Satan sleeps in people's noses, that eating dates wards off magic, that the sun sets in a pool of muddy water, and that semen comes from the spine and ribs, among others. He even got the number of joints in the human body wrong, and some "Islamic scientists" try to support his claim by pretending that some parts of the skeleton are joints, when they clearly are not.
You can't convince me of anything by using quotes from the Koran, because Mohammed's revelations were partly plagiarized from the Jewish Talmud (often out of context), partly from some non-canonical Christian scriptures, and many of his so-called "revelations" were simply decisions he made for his own convenience when he wanted something, for example, he wanted some of the booty that his gangsters had stolen or when he wanted to have sex with his step-son's wife. He was a child molester, and the leader of a successful gang of bandits. He ordered people to be murdered if they wrote funny poems about him, and he was basically a very violent man, and a sex pervert on top of it.
The fact is that when people try to closely imitate the details that are known about the life of Jesus from the Christian scriptures, they tend to become holy. When people try to imitate the details that are known about the life of Mohammed from the Koran and the haditha, they turn into the types of psychopaths we see in the world media, murdering people for various offenses, amputating their limbs, marrying and having sex with small children, and making war on non-Muslims just because they are non-Muslim. And their slogan could be summed up as, "Don't call us violent or we'll kill you." |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 6559
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| I Strongly prefer English Literature | John Milton |
