Christians And Muslims United

[Ekrem]

Hi everybody,
I cannot send my writing as it displays "spam detected". Can anyone help me get rid of this spam detection whatever it is?

[Ekrem]

Hi everybody,
This forum is sometimes being degraded by some members whose main concern is to make anti-Islamic propaganda without bothering about or testing the credibility of their assertions they produce. It is not practical to answer them one by one, they are all obvious baseless absurdities even for those who have not much but elementary knowledge about Islam and its history. Perhaps they themselves are aware of this fact, but they target, those who know nothing about Islam and the Qur’an and the related history which is the best recorded era of all times. For example Jamie wrote again a lot of nonsense, and seems he will have never been interested in and accept the truth. We Muslims obviously never care about the opinion of the Catholic Church about the Qur’an, which I cited here before for the Christians to stop their irresponsible denouncements. Jamie claims it is false. And cites some trivia from “The Catholic Encyclopedia”, not from “New The Catholic Encyclopedia”. It makes a big difference, because contrary to all the other books the Holy Qur’an reveals further its miracles as time passes and human understanding develops in parallel with advancements in the science and technology, let alone be outdated. So the New Catholic Encyclopedia cannot allow to be belittled by keeping and insisting to advocate similar absurdities that Jamie cited here. Let’s see what Dr Gary Miller says more precisely at the link:
http://www.ymsite.com/books/amazing_quran.htm#catholic
New Catholic Encyclopedia

It is this very sort of thing - confronting people with facts - that had captured the attention of many non-Muslims. In fact, there exists a very interesting reference concerning this subject in the New Catholic Encyclopedia. In an article under the subject of the Qur'an, the Catholic Church states:
"Over the centuries, many theories have been offered as to the origin of the Qur'an... Today no sensible man accepts any of these theories!!"
Now here is the age-old Catholic Church, which has been around for so many centuries, denying these futile attempts to explain away the Qur'an.
Indeed, the Qur'an is a problem for the Catholic Church. It states that it is revelation, so they study it. Certainly, they would love to find proof that it is not, but they cannot. They cannot find a viable explanation. But at least they are honest in their research and do not accept the first unsubstantiated interpretation which comes along. The Church states that in fourteen centuries it has not yet been presented a sensible explanation. At least it admits that the Qur'an is not an easy subject to dismiss. Certainly, other people are much less honest. They quickly say, "Oh, the Qur'an came from here. The Qur'an came from there." And they do not even examine the credibility of what they are stating most of the time.
Of course, such a statement by the Catholic Church leaves the everyday Christian in some difficulty. It just may be that he has his own ideas as to the origin of the Qur'an, but as a single member of the Church, he cannot really act upon his own theory. Such an action would be contrary to the obedience, allegiance and loyalty which the Church demands. By virtue of his membership, he must accept what the Catholic Church declares without question and establish its teachings as part of his everyday routine. So, in essence, if the Catholic Church as a whole is saying, "Do not listen to these unconfirmed reports about the Qur'an," then what can be said about the Islamic point of view? If even non-Muslims are admitting that there is something to the Qur'an - something that has to be acknowledged - then why are people so stubborn and defensive and hostile when Muslims advance the very same theory? This is certainly something for those with a mind to contemplate - something to ponder for those of understanding!

[Ekrem]

Now let’s consider this:
A New Astronomical Quranic Method for The Determination Of The Greatest Speed C
by Dr. Mansour Hassab-Elnaby*
Abstract:The greatest speed C, denoting the velocity of light in vacuum, is hinted at in two glorious Quranic verses relating this fundamental universal contant C with the motion of the Earth-Moon system. A new relativistic interpretation of this Quranic relation gives C=299792.5 km/s in an extremely marvellous agreement with the accepted international value. This astonishing result emphasises the unity of the physical world, the validity of the special theory of relativity and the authenticity of the Glorious Quran for unbelievers.
Please see and read this fully scientific article in detail at: http://www.islamiska.org/

[Ekrem]

And let’s consider this:
( . . . ) In all of the verses quoted please find the complete text at http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/amazingq.htm#source or http://www.islamiska.org/ , we see no references of any facts stating the sun is orbiting around the earth, which at the time was a very popular belief. Rather, we see the Qur'an stating that the moon and sun are quite independent and that they follow very different paths. Muslims at the time followed whatever scientific fact was in popular reason and in fact, when Ibn Al-Shater during the 12th-13th century hypothesized that the earth was not the center of the universe and proved it by trigonometric means, Muslims had no problem accepting his theory. Later on, Copernicus restated this theory to the Europeans. He received the credit for the discovery even until today. At the time, his theory was rejected and he was threatened by the church to change his opinion; which he did.
We can see the Muslims throughout history have had no problems accepting true scientific facts as it was part of their religious duty, but European Christians have always had to separate religion and science even until this very moment.

[Ekrem]

And let’s consider this:
Some years ago, the story came to us in Toronto about a man who was in the merchant marine and made his living on the sea. A Muslim gave him a translation of the Qur'an to read. The merchant marine knew nothing about the history of Islam but was interested in reading the Qur'an. When he finished reading it, he brought it back to the Muslim and asked, "This Muhammed, was he a sailor?" He was impressed at how accurately the Qur'an describes a storm on a sea. When he was told, "No as a matter of fact, Muhammed lived in the desert," that was enough for him. He embraced Islam on the spot. He was so impressed with the Qur'an's description because he had been in a storm on the sea, and he knew that whoever had written that description had also been in a storm on the sea. The description of "a wave, over it a wave, over it clouds" was not what someone imagining a storm on a sea to be like would have written; rather, it was written by someone who knew what a storm on the sea was like. This is one example of how the Qur'an is not tied to a certain place and time. Certainly, the scientific ideas expressed in it also do not seem to originate from the desert fourteen centuries ago.
I strongly suggest you all, Muslim or non-Muslim, read very carefully and thoroughly the article “Amazing Qur’an” at
http://www.ymsite.com/books/amazing_quran.htm#catholic

[Ekrem]

Marmaduke Pickthall is quoted to have said:
“... The Qur'an cannot be translated. ...The book is here rendered almost literally and every effort has been made to choose befitting language. But the result is not the Glorious Qur'an, that inimitable symphony, the very sounds of which move men to tears and ectasy. It is only an attempt to present the meaning of the Qur'an-and peradventure something of the charm in English. It can never take the place of the Qur'an in Arabic, nor is it meant to do so...”
Including me myself hundreds of millions of Muslims witness and verify his words. We hardly need tranquilizers or anti-depressants, we just recite or listen to a reciter. Those who suspect can see and hear the Glorious Qur’an both in original Arabic and English here at this link:

[Ekrem]

Because of spam detection I divided my writing into small parts to find where the spam was. I think it was in the link address. So I cannot give the link address, but it has words Quran explorer.

There is no West and East, everywhere is God’s property, everyone of us is His creation. Can you consider we Muslims are awful people while we are inviting you to share something we value and cherish most, and ready to die for? If religious and cultural partiality were not involved in, I believe not a single one who has read and contemplated the revelations and interpretations referred above would be able to refrain himself from crying out, “yes indeed the Qur’an is an amazing, miraculous, divine book”. But, can our biases and prejudices or religious partialities alter the truth and be valid excuses in God’s sight for denying divinity of the Glorious Qur’an?

[Shyone]

As long as people believe that what they believe is right for them and therefore has to be right for everyone else too, there will be no unity.

We, as single human beings, have to understand that what we believe is only right for ourselves. Everyone has his/her own interpretation of his/her religion or other belief, and it is only perfectly right for the one person.

Trying to understand why it is not right for anyone else, working on it, studying it, might in the far, far future possibly lead to some kind of peace between those who belief so differently.

But to be honest, I can not see it, not now, not ever.
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No comment

[NinaZara]

[NinaZara]

[Ekrem]

Hi everybody,

The opponents of Islam think Islamic Law or Shariah is its soft spot and the modern law surpassed it. As far as I remember, in six centuries only nine thieves lost their hands and no one or perhaps not more than a few, stoned to death for adultery by Shariah. During the early years of the Turkish Republic people were leaving their stores unattended, with the doors wide open, and going to the mosque for Friday prayer for instance, a situation known when the owner of the shop would come back at the earliest time. Now our cherished Republic that adopted the Western Law and lifestyle raised its own citizens, the people from the Ottomans all passed away; guess the result. Is theft doubled, tripled or increased tenfold? I can easily claim it increased billions of times despite the people are using the best locks and the cameras. The money swindled by the corrupt high ranking officials, not even excluding the presidency is another story. The money swindled through the interest system, the money system itself is also a separate story. As for the adultery punishment in Islam, it was not applied for centuries because it is virtually imposible to prove it as sound as the Shariah requires, let me try to show you what is cruel; a few weeks ago a young girl was slaughtered alive with a saw by her satanist boy friend. Thousands of cruel murders, and suicides are being commited daily in the world because of adultery. The family in West finished. How can someone from the so called civilization which opened brothels in every city dare to criticize Islamic Law which showed the world what chastity is, applying only a few punishments in its history, excluding heretical Wahhabi regimes founded by the British intelligence to overthrow the Ottoman Empire and some of its current branches like Taliban. Now let's lend our ears to Khurram Murad, who is I think an academician or a researcher:
"( . . . )
ALLEGED CRUELTY
As to the alleged cruelty of physical penalties, one wonders if to deprive a man of his freedom -- his most precious and valuable possession – and his right to act and continue to make moral choices , to live with his family, to work and support them is not more cruel. Indeed, a prison term can inflict untold misery on innocent people whose lives are intertwined with the life of the prisoner. Prison becomes a school for hardening criminal behavior and a breeding ground for recidivism. Why should it be considered more cruel for a man found drug trafficking to be given ten lashes than to be sent to languish in prison for, say, ten years.
REFORM SYNDROME
Why does Islam want to punish and not reform? The question is fallacious, for in Islam every institution of society is value oriented and owes a responsibility towards the moral development of every person from the cradle to the grave. Reform is therefore a pre-crime responsibility and not a post-crime syndrome and nightmare. Islam makes every effort to ensure that inducement to commit crime is minimal. Once the crime is committed, the best place for reform is in the family and in society, where a criminal is to live after punishment, and not in a prison where every inmate is a criminal; unless of course a society considers itself to be more corrupt and less competent to effect reform than a jail! Against this, the ‘modern, enlightened’ approach is to provide every inducement to crime by building a society based on conspicuous consumption; to make society, education and every other institution ‘value – free’ and then to try to reform a criminal by segregating him and keeping him in a prison.
PROCEDURAL JUSTICE
Sentences in Islam are certainly harsh, but still more strict and severe are the procedures laid down to be observed before a man may be convinced. These procedures are modeled on the paradigm of the Day of Judgement, when even God, though he is All-knowing, and Just, will not punish anybody unless He establishes his guilt. To let nine criminals go free is preferable to convicting one innocent man, said the Prophet.
CONCLUSION
The Shari’ah is an integrated homogenous whole. Once one understands its basic concepts, objectives and framework, one cannot but conclude that it is capable of creating the most human and just society, a peace and blessing for mankind. Difficulties only arise when critics try to measure the ocean of divine knowledge, wisdom and justice with their own thimble of pedestrian criteria and standards.
Today’s Muslim societies are not model societies — they are infested with ills and evils – yet the comparatively stable family life, absence of delinquency, low crime rates, much greater freedom from drugs and alcoholism, warmth of brotherhood, generosity and mutual aid and help – all these are the legacies of that divinely given code of life, the way to Justice, which once they used to adhere to, and yearn to have the change to return to – the Shari’ah. " Read more at this link:

http://www.iiu.edu.my/deed/lawbase/shariah.html

[Prezbucky]

As the father of this thread I feel some responsibility for its results. Probably the title was sofa king we Todd it (swearing phrase, subterfuge-style. hehe) and requires an adjustment. Forthwith, let us re-name this worthy topic:

Christians and Muslims Agreeing to Disagree Yet Respecting and Befriending Each Other

Maybe that's a more practical goal. For my part, I'll say that I'd share dinner -- heck, my home -- with any of you, for whether we agree on religious points or not, I respect your honesty and integrity.
you're all aces in my personal deck of cards.

Maybe that's the important thing: we're humans, bound to feel passionate about certain things and disagree. But our disagreements don't mean that we have to treat each other as anything less than friends.

I disagree with my woman (I say "my" loosely, as any man will understand...) all the time -- myriad subjects, several times each day -- but I still love her for who she is.

We obviously can't all love each other romantically, but maybe we can --though we disagree -- respect each other in pan-cultural friendship.

So... party at my house tonight: beer for the Christians, chukah (no idea how to spell that) for the Muslims... and BEEF for all. hehe
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Billie Jean is not my lover. Hee.

[Happytofita]

[Kitosdad]

HTF, air-tickets supplied gratis? Count me in. :) :)

Kitos.
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Keep it simple ... Keep it interesting.

[Happytofita]

You are most welcome.:D