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 #2 (permalink) Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:21 am Christians And Muslims United |
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If I'm not mistaken, Mohammed ordered the killing of some people due to religious differences, which would be against Christian teaching. He also ordered at least one adulteress stoned to death, while Jesus prevented a crowd from doing that.
I think the two religions are compatible only on an extremely superficial level, but that's just my opinion. |
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Jamie (K)
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| #3 (permalink) Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:02 am Christians And Muslims United |
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It still couldn't hurt to try to find some common ground. Though I was a bit tipsy when I made that post, it was made in good faith.
TD, thanks for honoring the request to start this topic.
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Prezbucky
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| #4 (permalink) Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:04 am Christians And Muslims United |
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As well to ask why Muslims and Jews can't get along also.
All 3 faiths trace their roots back to Abraham, and if anything, I'd say that Judaism and Islam share more in common with each other than either does with Christianity.
And look how well most Muslims and Jews get along...
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 Skrej
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| #5 (permalink) Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:09 am Christians And Muslims United |
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Here is an answer to that:
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Jamie (K)
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Happytofita
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| #7 (permalink) Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:01 am Christians And Muslims United |
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What are the central tenets of Islam? If Islam could be boiled down to ten rules/lessons, what would they be?
I've heard some say that violence and oppression are taught in the Qur'an while others say that the teaching is peaceful and respectful of foes.
So I don't know what to think but to assume that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
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Prezbucky
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Happytofita
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| #9 (permalink) Fri Apr 03, 2009 23:07 pm Christians and Muslims united |
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Hi everybody,
I've just read some remarks on Islam and Christianity. Islam is the fastest growing religion despite the fact that the Muslims of our time are so weak and even corrupt as a result of a series of plots lasting for centuries. I suggest that you should assess Islam by the Qur'an, the holy book, words of Allah. We believe in it is from God, it has reached us without any change, not even a single dot added or removed. If Vatican accepts this fact then it has to deny itself. So let's see what Vatican says about Qur'an:
In an article under the subject of the Qur'an, the Catholic Church states, "Over the centuries, many theories have been offered as to the origin of the Qur'an... Today no sensible man accepts any of these theories." !! Now here is the age-old Catholic Church, which has been around for so many centuries, denying these futile attempts to explain away the Qur'an. Indeed, the Qur'an is a problem for the Catholic Church. It states that it is revelation, so they study it. Certainly, they would love to find proof that it is not, but they cannot. They cannot find a viable explanation. But at least they are honest in their research and do not accept the first unsubstantiated interpretation which comes along. The Church states that in fourteen centuries it has not yet been presented a sensible explanation. At least it admits that the Qur'an is not an easy subject to dismiss.
more http://www.islam101.com/science/GaryMiller.html |
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Ekrem
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| #10 (permalink) Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:03 am Christians And Muslims United |
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The Qur'an is first and foremost a recitation, it didn't come in a form of a book. In fact, in Qur'an itself, there is an ayah that says it will remain in the people's chest. If you are familiar with the Muslim world, you will know that there are millions of Muslims who remember Qur'an by heart. And most of them are not native speakers of Arabic. Other Muslims like myself, even if we have not memorized the whole Qur'an, we at least know a portion of it. This is a miracle that I personally feel, there is something about it that makes it easy to memorize.
It was first compiled after the war of Yamamah(Mouhcine, correct me if I am wrong) where many al-hafizs(men who memorized the Koran) died. This was during the reign of Abu Bakar As-siddiq, the first caliph after the death of Muhammad SAW. And this was suggested by Umar Al-Khattab. Umar was worried that Qur'an will vanish as these men die. But Abu Bakar was reluctant because it was not done by Muhammad SAW himself. Now, if you are familiar with the Muslims, this is a common reaction. It is the same reason why we don't materialize our prophets, the commonsense to it is, you must not make up what is not in Ad-Din(religion) or you have no idea of, because akidah(belief) is so important and you must not taint it with anything.
Back to our story, after many relentless persuasions by Umar, Abu Bakar finally agreed to compile the Qur'an. And so he called Zaid Ibn Tsabit to take on the task. At that time, Zaid was well known by the society for his meticulousness. Zaid took on the task with a heavy heart, he even said if his task was to move the mountain, it will be easier than to compile the Qur'an. So he began by summoning people to hand in pieces of Qur'an that were written on animal skins, bones, rocks and etc. The criterion for these pieces of Qur'an to be acceptable was each piece must be written in the presence of the Prophet Muhammad SAW himself, with two witnesses. All surah in the Qur'an has two witnesses except for one VERSE (not chapter), which is in surah At-Taubah(Repentance). For At-Taubah, they could not find one more witness. But the one witness was a fellow named Huzaima. Now this is an interesting fellow. During the time when Muhammad SAW was still alive, there was a man who came to Muhammad SAW because he disagreed with the prophet over a business transaction and there was no witnesses. And so Huzaima told the Prophet "I'll bear witness for you O' Messenger of God". The Prophet looked at him and said, "Were you there that you should you believe me?" So Huzaima replied, "We believe a revelation comes to you from God, and we won't believe you over a business transaction?" And so Muhammad SAW said that the witnessing of Huzaima is like a witnessing of two people. So the matter was settled at that.
It took a while for them to do this but when it was done, they re-wrote the entire Qur'an on papyri and it was kept by Umar and then were given to his daughter, Hafsa.
Now, during the time of Uthman, the third caliph, there began to be some differences in the recital of the Qur'an. This was because during the time when it was written, it was written without the dots/diacritical marks. There were people who already memorized the Qur'an and knew how to recite it but this was a problem for the new learners. So Uthman wanted to standardize the writing of the Qur'an. So Zaid was once again put to the task, under the recommendations of Uthman, one of them is, if they differ about the way it was recited, namely differences in pronunciations/accents, they need to bring it to the Quraish to compare them.
And when this is done, Uthman, as the caliph of the Muslims at that time, sent every governor of every center of the Muslims a copy and demanded the non-standardized ones to be burnt.
And the interesting about the Qur'an is, the book itself is not the primary source of the protection of Qur'an. The Qur'an is protected thru oral transmission. Everytime a copy is made, it is not compared to another copy of Qur'an to check it, but it was sent to a recitor to check it. Now this is very interesting. If you ever prayed in the mosque, thou know what I'm talking about. Everytime an imam makes a mistake in his recitation, you will hear the makmum(followers who pray behind the imam) correcting him. It is the most amazing phenomenon. In Mecca where the imam has a microphone in front of him, and so when he makes a mistake in his recitaion, you will hear "Boom!" from the left to right, all around the makmum correcting the imam.
This is not encouraged, because we should let the imam correct himself first, but people are so overzealous at protecting the Qur'an and every serious Muslim takes this task to their heart.
And this is also why you don't hear Muslims quote the Qur'an in English without a following of detail painstaking care of explanation. A translation of Qur'an in English or any other language is not considered Qur'an. In fact, there was never a word of God that was revealed in English. And I say this time and again, Muslims are very careful with their akidah(belief) and they do not want to send wrong words of God. This is why most of the time, a Muslim remained silent when his religion is under attack because we were told to keep quiet than to say something we are unsure of or lie. Our akidah is the utmost important to us and we try our hard to take care of it. And this is also why we have no associations in our belief in God. God is one and that's it. And our relationship to God is direct, we do not need a statue or picture to worship God. This is absolutely haram(forbidden) in Islam because of the nature of the act(putting an idol in front of you to pray) itself. This act can be easily confusing and this is the exact thing we want far, far away from our akidah. Praying is the most sacred act that we do when we communicate with God, it is the act where we humble ourselves and put our forehead to the lowest position possible for God. And it has to be as direct as it can be done with no other medium whatsoever. |
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| #11 (permalink) Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:11 am Christians And Muslims United |
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Hi everybody,
NinaZara is right about her views on the Qur'an. But she is insufficient of course as no one can talk about it sufficiently. It is so miraculous that the whole mankind of all ages have been and will be unable to say "we thoroughly understood the Qur'an". Those of you who had a difficulty to accept this belief, can visit the following website and see just one of its countless miracles:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/rose-nebula.html
NinaZara also points out that Qur'an cannot be translated, and non of its interpretations is equal to it. So let's listen to an expert, Mr. Pickthall who translated the Qur'an into English: “... The Qur'an cannot be translated. ...The book is here rendered almost literally and every effort has been made to choose befitting language. But the result is not the Glorious Qur'an, that inimitable symphony, the very sounds of which move men to tears and ecstasy. It is only an attempt to present the meaning of the Qur'an-and peradventure something of the charm in English. It can never take the place of the Qur'an in Arabic, nor is it meant to do so...” |
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Ekrem
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| #12 (permalink) Tue May 05, 2009 9:40 am Christians And Muslims United |
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Here is a full documentary of how the Muslims believe in Jesus (PBUH). The opinions of Christian scholars were also seeked in this video so if we want to know what we share in common I think it's a good place to start.
We both love and revere the mighty prophet of God, Jesus (PBUH), what better way to start other than to learn about the person we love most.
.readingislam.com%2Fservlet%2FSatellite%3Fc%3DArticle_C%26cid%3D1237706251372%26pagename%3DZone-English-Discover_Islam&feature=player_embedded |
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NinaZara
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| #13 (permalink) Fri May 08, 2009 13:06 pm Christians And Muslims United |
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This is a very good read about Islam, Muslims and America.
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A Time for Introspection
"The worst enemies of Islam are from within", writes American convert scholar of Islam, Hamza Yusuf.
This article first appeared in Q-News, Europe's largest Muslim magazine.
On September 11th our lives changed forever. We witnessed an act of aggression that in many ways does not have a parallel in past or present times. There are several elements that make this act unique, from the use of civilian planes as weapons of mass destruction to the attack on the most widely recognized skyscrapers in the world. Nor have we ever witnessed the terrible indictment of Islam as having a part to play in such a heinous crime.
Muslims were seen rejoicing in some parts of the world in a display of what can only be called shamaatatul 'aadai', which is rejoicing at the calamities of ones’ enemies. This is something explicitly prohibited in Islam and was never practiced by the Prophet of Mercy, upon him be prayers and peace. We have seen images since of American flags burning to further arouse the wrath of a nation filled with grief, confusion and anger. Again, Islam prohibits the burning of flags according to the explicit verse, “Do not curse [the idols] of those who call on other than Allah, thus causing them to curse Allah out of animosity [toward you] and without knowledge.” This verse prohibits even the cursing of false gods because of the consequences. We have also seen image after image of Muslims with beards and turbans, who by all outward means look religious and pious - but are they really?
Unfortunately, the West does not know what every Muslim scholar knows; that the worst enemies of Islam are from within. The worst of these are the khawaarij who delude others by the deeply dyed religious exterior that they project. The Prophet, peace be upon him, said about them, “When you see them pray you will consider your own prayers insignificant. They recite the Quran but it does not exceed the limits of their throat.” In other words, they don’t understand the true meanings. The outward religious appearance and character of the khawaarij deluded thousands in the past, and continues to delude people today. The Muslims should be aware that despite the khawaarij adherence to certain aspects of Islam, they are extremists of the worst type.
Our Prophet said, peace be upon him, “Beware of extremism in your religion.” Islam is the middle way between excess and neglect. Zealots are a plague upon religion. These extremists come in two types. The first is a reactionary extremist who falls far right of a center-point. Reactionary extremists do not want any pluralism; they view the world in melodramatic, black and white, good and evil terms. They are good and anyone who opposes them is evil. From among the Muslims these are people who ‘excommunicate’ any Muslim who fails to share their interpretations of the Quran. They use takfir [denouncing a Muslim as an unbeliever] and character assassination as a tool for marginalizing any criticism directed at them. They are used often by the Western media in order to scare simple people and cause them to believe that Muslims are insane. Unfortunately, our communities provide them with much fuel to fire their incendiary flames.
The second group are radical extremists, who while they are almost identical with the former group, differ in that they will use violence to further their cause. They are actually worse than the first. They believe like every nefarious secret society before them that ‘the end justifies the means.’ They see any act as acceptable if it will further their ‘cause.’ This is blatantly anti-Islamic for a number of reasons.
Firstly, Islam’s means must reflect its noble ends. Any means that does not embody the core truths and ethics of Islam is not from Islam and thus denounced as aberration. Secondly, Islam is not a secret society of conspirators who no one knows what they are planning. Islam declares openly its aims and objectives and these are recognized by good people everywhere as pure and congruent with their own wisdom and traditions. In the case of many of these extremists even the non-Muslims recognize that no religion of any weight could sanction the taking of innocent lives. The Quran says that the Torah and the Gospel have guidance and light and that the Quran came to fulfill these prior dispensations. Good Christians and Jews who believe in God and live ethically upright lives have no frame of reference for such acts, so how could these acts be from Islam, which confirms what has come before it?
Thirdly, they are invariably people who have never taken a true spiritual path to God and nor have they studied the humanities. I can almost guarantee that you will not find a scholar of poetry among the whole vile lot of these people. They have no true knowledge of Arabian culture, which is centered in the idea of futuwwa; a word akin to the western word chivalry. The terrorists posing as journalists who killed Ahmad Shah Masud [Afghan Northern Alliance leader] were cowards of the worst type. Killing themselves was not bravery but stupidity, but killing one’s enemy in such a way is the worst form of treachery and the Arabs have many poems denouncing such type of people.
Our real situation is this: we Muslims have lost theologically sound understanding of our teaching. Islam has been hijacked by a discourse of anger and the rhetoric of rage. We have allowed for too long our mimbars [pulpits] to become bully pulpits in which people with often recognizable psychopathology use anger - a very powerful emotion - to rile Muslims up, only to leave them feeling bitter and spiteful towards people who in the most part are completely unaware of the conditions in the Muslim world, or the oppressive assaults of some Western countries on Muslim peoples. We have lost our bearings because we have lost our theology. We have almost no theologians in the entire Muslim world. The study of kalaam, once the hallmark of our intellectual tradition, has been reduced to memorizing 144 lines of al-Jawhara and a good commentary to study it, at best.
The reality is we are an Umma [worldwide Muslim community] that no longer realizes that Allah is the power behind all power; that it is Allah who subjugates one people to another; that He gives dominion to whom He pleases and He takes it away from whom He pleases. Our understanding of tawhid [oneness of God] has fallen into such disarray that we can no longer introspect when afflictions befall us and then wonder in amazement at why the Americans seem incapable of introspection. Indeed, I personally attended a memorial service in San Francisco with over 30,000 people and the Reverend Amos Brown said in no uncertain terms that America must ask herself what she has done either wittingly or unwittingly to incur the wrath and hate of people around the world. Muslims on the other hand, generally prefer to attack the West as the sole reason for their problems when the truth is we are bankrupt as a religious community and our spiritual bankruptcy has led to our inability to even deliver the message of Islam to Westerners in a time when they were giving us platforms to do so.
It is ironic that the Western media while producing many vile programs on Islam has also produced and aired material of the highest quality with a high level of accuracy only to be vilified by Muslims because it was not good enough. Where is our media? Where are our spokespeople? Where are our scholars? Where are our literary figures? The truth is we don’t have any - and so instead of looking inward and asking painful questions such as why we don’t have such things and such people, we take the simple way out by attacking people whom Allah tells us will do mean things, say bad things and plot against us. And always when we are warned we are told to be patient, to work for the good, to trust in Allah, to return to Allah, to implement our deen [religion].
Conspiracy or not, we are to blame for the terrible backlash against Muslims. The simple reason is that when a crazy Christian does something terrible, everyone in the West knows it is the actions of a mad man because they have some knowledge of the core beliefs and ethics of Christianity. When a mad Muslim does something evil or foolish they assume it is from the religion of Islam, not because they hate us but because they have never been told by a Muslim what the teachings of Islam are all about.
Khawaarij - Originally refers to a fanatical early Muslim sect which supported Prophet Mohammed's cousin Ali in the dispute over who should lead the Muslim community after the death of the prophet. When Ali offered to compromise, one of the khawaarij murdered him.
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NinaZara
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Freshmeat
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| #15 (permalink) Fri May 08, 2009 18:16 pm Christians And Muslims United |
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| Freshmeat wrote: |
you haven't had enough information for Islam
Islam says that one of the most important thing is peace in the world.Actually you could not see real Islam because All of important tv channels and web-sites have built by Christians!They do not show real Islam |
Are Christians the only ones who own TV Channels?  It is better to get rid of the idea that Christians are our enemies because they are the closest to us as Quran says.
| Freshmeat wrote: |
I am a Muslim and i approve that we have some bad rules which had not included by Qur'an.
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Who are we? As I have previously stated, Shia have gone far beyond the Islamic teachings. The way they celebrate the Day of Ashura has nothing to do with Islam.
Take care,
Mouhcine |
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Happytofita
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| four things to learn Fnglish | Can you crack this code? |
you know, things go wrong when one interprets verses in his own way. For example, I can read Matthew 10:34 - "I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" or "For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother," and go to CNN or BBC and pick up a piece of news in which a son killed his father and say that Christianity teaches violence. The same for Islam. I can read some verses in Quran and interpret them the way I want and use them as a justification for killing others. Islam does not even allow insulting the followers of other religions: "And insult not those whom they worship besides Allah" (6:108) let alone killing them. 
