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 #32 (permalink) Sun Jun 07, 2009 23:46 pm The Miracle of landing on the moon! |
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| Happytofita wrote: |
| Jamie (K) wrote: |
They were advanced 4,000 years ago, but that doesn't mean they are advanced now. They are scientifically and technologically backward today. Most of their advances have been given to them or bought from the Western countries and the nations of the Far East. |
Most scientists are exported from the Far East to the US. |
Many Americans would agree with this statement, but they would be wrong. For the time being, most scientists in the US are still Americans, and most students getting a PhD in science in the US are Americans. Most people getting PhD's in engineering in the US are foreigners, but that's mainly because the foreign students in our engineering departments are a cash cow for our universities. Most of those students don't necessarily end up working in the US.
Some of the science and engineering graduates do stay in the US, though, and I don't blame them. For example, a Palestinian student of chemistry or engineering could go back to the place where he was born, for example in Jordan or Lebanon, but the governments of those countries will forbid him to work outside the refugee camps. That means he would never be employed in his profession. Employers in the US or Europe would be happy to give him a job, however, so he is liable to stay. Many students come from countries where there is no market for their skills.
| Happytofita wrote: |
| Jamie (K) wrote: |
Well, if several people of a certain religion claim that a certain person is going to appear in the sky on a white donkey at the end of the world, I tend to believe that's what they really think. |
Who are these people? You seem to believe everything certain people say about themselves. I have never heard of such a thing in my religion. Some Christians like Bart D. Ehrman critize Christianity. Since they are Christians, do you tend to believe what they say about their religion? |
I may not believe what they say, but I'll believe that THEY believe what they say. If a Christian tells me that he believes every single thing in the Bible is literally true exactly as it's written, I'll know this is heretical doctrine (in my form of Christianity), but I'll have no doubt he actually believes it. An educated (!) Turkish lady told me once that it's impossible for a mistake to appear when someone transcribes the Koran, because (according to her) if the person copying the text does make a mistake, God will correct it on the paper after he walks away. I don't believe this is true, and I doubt that most Muslims believe it's true, but I believe that this Turkish woman believed it.
| Happytofita wrote: |
| The majority of Arabs do not have those problems either. |
Right. At least we agree on that.
| Happytofita wrote: |
| We are not drowning in immorality as in the West. |
I would say that you are, but that a lot of Arab behavior that we in the West consider immoral is considered pious behavior or in some way justified in Arabic culture, because it involves "taking care of one's family", revenge, or something else that is considered noble in that culture but damages others. I see it when they come here and I have to deal with them directly. Of all the nationalities I deal with, they lie much more, they plagiarize much more, they expect to be given opportunities to break rules just because they know me, and it's clear to me that they don't even know they're doing anything wrong. They're not ashamed of this behavior at all, while people from China or South America would be.
| Happytofita wrote: |
| The rates of murder are higher in the Western World than in places that are suffering civil wars. |
What's your definition of the Western World? Places like Germany and France have very low murder rates (if you don't count riots caused by you-know-who). Certain US cities do have higher murder rates than places that are in the middle of civil wars, but the majority of murders are carried out by a very small percentage of one particular ethnic group.
| Happytofita wrote: |
| Some people in your country are spreading this immorality all over the world. |
Yes, that's a big concern to most Americans. However, since we don't live in a totalitarian society, we can't just arbitrarily send the police in to shut them down.
| Happytofita wrote: |
| Just look at Hollywood movies and Western television. Two people meet up at a restaurant. After 20 minutes, they are on bed having carnal knowledge. |
Note to Middle Easterners: Don't try this yourself!
There's frequently a problem at US universities that male students from the Middle East arrive and think the American movies they saw were realistic. So they walk up to a girl, talk to her for a few minutes and expect her to go to bed with them. Of course, in 99.99999% of the cases, the girl will say no, and the Middle Easterner will feel angry and personally insulted because he "knows" from our movies that all you have to do is ask an American girl and she'll cooperate. I even know of American girls getting punched for refusing!
| Happytofita wrote: |
| I do not mean to point the finger at your culture. Arabs are responsible too. |
Hollywood can't sell anything to Arabs that they don't want. They always have the option of doing what many Americans do and staying away from those media. I know many American families who have very restricted TV viewing for their kids and even for the parents. They are very careful about the shows they watch and the movies they see. They can put together a good enough variety of moral Hollywood movies, including old ones, movies from India and other types to keep the family entertained for a thousand years, if necessary. Some American families just shut the TV off completely or even throw it away, and have the kids read and do sports.
| Happytofita wrote: |
| There is nothing called temporary marriages in my religion. I have told you that many times, but there's none so deaf as those who will not hear. |
It's practiced in Iran and in some other countries.
| Happytofita wrote: |
| Church bombings. I have heard of some, but I cannot recall them. May be you can remind me of them. |
There have been bombings in Pakistan (not just one), Nepal, Egypt and similar countries. All you have to do is type "church bombing" and the name of the country into Google, and you'll get plenty of news stories.
| Happytofita wrote: |
| I am waiting you to condemn mosque bombings in Iraq, torture and prison abuse. Will you do that? |
The US forces in Iraq were under orders not to shoot at mosques, which was a problem, because Al-Qaeda and dead-enders from Saddam Hussein's government were shooting from mosques and storing munitions in them, knowing that the Americans probably wouldn't shoot back. (It's very much like when those people surround themselves with civilians knowing that the US troops are under orders to minimize civilian casualties.)
There have been mosque bombings performed by Muslims, and this is not only according to US forces, but also to the Iranian authorities:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Askari_Mosque_bombing_(2006)#USA_and_Israel
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE54T0MW20090530
As for torture in prisons, if you paid attention to the news thoroughly, you'll know that news about the torture in the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq first reached the media from the US military, who had already arrested the soldiers who had committed the acts. Those soldiers are rightfully now in prison.
| Happytofita wrote: |
| Forced religious conversions. "There is no compulsion in religion." Quran (2:256). |
That's the line Muslims always point to, but...
| 9:29 wrote: |
| "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." |
| 9:5 wrote: |
| "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..." |
| Sahih Muslim (19:4294) wrote: |
| "When you meet your enemies who are polytheists [Christians...], invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them ... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them" |
| Bukhari (2:24) wrote: |
| "Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah." |
| Happytofita wrote: |
| If you want to talk about forced religious conversions, let me remind you again of Saint Augustine’s cognite intrare. |
The only place I can find this doctrine mentioned is on Muslim websites. I have searched in vain for it in Christian sources -- including the writings of St. Augustine -- and it appears not to be there. I'm going to ask a couple of priests about it, but I think it's a canard. |
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Jamie (K)
I'm a Communicator ;-)
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 6559
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| #33 (permalink) Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:45 am The Miracle of landing on the moon! |
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First, we do not recognize that as Quran. That’s just a translation. I have already told you what happens when you translate texts from Arabic into English. When you read them in Arabic, you will find another meaning. Second, you cannot read verses of the Quran out of the context they are in. You cannot explain things in your own way. There are scholars whose job is to explain those things. And if you want to ignore the aforesaid things, have a look at this:
Deuteronomy 13: 7- 8- 9- 10- 11
| Quote: |
"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or your intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known,
gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other:
do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him,
but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.
You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the LORD, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. » |
Deuteronomy 17:12
| Quote: |
| « Any man who has the insolence to refuse to listen to the priest who officiates there in the ministry of the LORD, your God, or to the judge, shall die. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. » |
Deuteronomy 20: 16
| Quote: |
| But in the cities of those nations which the LORD, your God, is giving you as your heritage, you shall not leave a single soul alive. |
Deuteronomy 20: 10- 11- 12- 13- 14
| Quote: |
"When you march up to attack a city, first offer it terms of peace.
If it agrees to your terms of peace and opens its gates to you, all the people to be found in it shall serve you in forced labor.
But if it refuses to make peace with you and instead offers you battle, lay siege to it,
and when the LORD, your God, delivers it into your hand, put every male in it to the sword;
but the women and children and livestock and all else in it that is worth plundering you may take as your booty, and you may use this plunder of your enemies which the LORD, your God, has given you. » |
Have you ever read the above verses?
He who lives in a glass house should not throw stones.
Quran did not need to teach Arabs how to fight, Jamie. They were born with the sword in their hands. When they were cast out of their houses at the outset, they waited for two years before they fought back to return to their houses. Arabs who fought a war for 40 years over a stupid horse race, waited for two years when they were cast out of their home.
: o) |
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 Happytofita
I'm here quite often ;-)
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| #34 (permalink) Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:08 am The Miracle of landing on the moon! |
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Kitosdad wrote:
Many of these experts were American scientists.
I think you mean American "scientists".
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I would be obliged if you were to point out my error.
Jamie, yet again, in your haste to make others look fools, you succeed only in highlighting your own foolishness. Give it a rest, for goodness sake.
Kitos.
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Kitosdad
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| #35 (permalink) Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:31 am The Miracle of landing on the moon! |
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Hi,
Let's make it clear that wikipedia simply isn't worth quoting because any Tom, Dick or Harry can write what they like in it.
Alan
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English as a Second Language
You can read my ESL story Present Simple |
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Alan
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| #36 (permalink) Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:48 am The Miracle of landing on the moon! |
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The real question is, " Did it ever actually happen?"
Dear Mouhcine
listen please:
Show forgivness,enjoy what is good ,and turn away from foolish - don't punish them-- Al Araf-199
and
Whomsover Allah guides , he is the guided one , and whomsover He sends astray , then those ! They are the losers.
Jamie, Give it a rest, for goodness sake. |
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Hello
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| #37 (permalink) Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:14 am The Miracle of landing on the moon! |
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Oh please this subject is not to talk about religion, The argument in the details of religion will not end to the point of agreement... Remember the devil lives in the details.
So let's return to the basic subject...
_____________
I think USA has to apologize toward the whole world for this big miracle I mean the big lie , I mean the big myth... How dare you to laugh at all the world.
I remember my old father when he found me asleep he said: :What is this ?! people reached to the moon, and you are still asleep here"..
I was that day a child .. But I said .. "is it true father that people reached to the moon".?! He answer me: "Oh no no my son that is impossible, but some people say that nonsense.!
But when we got older .. we believed that, because we believe in the science of human brain.. but year by year the real science discovered the fake science..
Every year and you are alright.
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We are always looking for a miracle but the things we are used to seeing are more miraculous than those we are looking for. |
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Jamilion
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| #38 (permalink) Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:16 am The Miracle of landing on the moon! |
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Hello,
I just try to remind Jamie. I know that there are wrong and right ways of reading scriptures. Not any ‘Jamie’, Tom, Dick or Harry can do that. It is the job of scholars. That’s why there are many scholars in Islam and in Judaism (rabbis). And I bet my life Jamie knows that. But he keeps posting things ignoring them. So he needs to be reminded every now and then.
I am sorry to all of you for this mess. Pardon me.
Thank you Salam.
: o) |
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Happytofita
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| #39 (permalink) Mon Jun 08, 2009 16:58 pm The Miracle of landing on the moon! |
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Thank you Happytofita for your kindness , and I hope teacher Jamie will not feel bad for what have been said here ... As to me I love USA and the good people of US and I liked their tolerance and achievements.. but that doesn't prevent us to have attitude against the government which it is treating with the world as if it is just a game.
So friend Jamie calm down.. And let's learn from you as a cliver teacher And let me shake your hand..
Good bye
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We are always looking for a miracle but the things we are used to seeing are more miraculous than those we are looking for. |
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Jamilion
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| #40 (permalink) Mon Jun 08, 2009 20:22 pm The Miracle of landing on the moon! |
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I think USA has to apologize toward the whole world for this big miracle I mean the big lie , I mean the big myth... How dare you to laugh at all the world.
**********************
I agree with you Jamie , and don't lose your temper with us,please.. , you're our old friend.I just want to say that we don't want to fight fire with fire ,or to take fight back .And I don't want to bother you anymore.
Yes , it's not hortative speech.
Many thanks for you , and for my friend Mouhcine for his discussion with intestinal fortitude.
Good luck for you all. |
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Hello
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| #41 (permalink) Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:03 am The Miracle of landing on the moon! |
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Neil Armstrong refused for a years to be interviewed... why? the international hero refused to talk about his great experience as a first man on the moon?!
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Jamilion
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| #42 (permalink) Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:24 am The Miracle of landing on the moon! |
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There's a simple explanation for your question, Jamilion, it's called 'privacy'. Many people just don't like being in the public eye.
Why do many movie stars or celebrities refuse to be interviewed? It's their job, their profession, but yet they still don't like doing interviews.
Perhaps Armstrong just got tired of having the media camped out on his doorstep day and night. I imagine there was a LOT of demand for interviews for somebody that famous, and it probably gets old, very fast, having cameras and microphones in your face every time you try to step outside your house.
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Skrej
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| #43 (permalink) Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:30 am The Miracle of landing on the moon! |
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| Quote: |
There's a simple explanation for your question, Jamilion, it's called 'privacy'. Many people just don't like being in the public eye.
Why do many movie stars or celebrities refuse to be interviewed? It's their job, their profession, but yet they still don't like doing interviews.
Perhaps Armstrong just got tired of having the media camped out on his doorstep day and night. I imagine there was a LOT of demand for interviews for somebody that famous, and it probably gets old, very fast, having cameras and microphones in your face every time you try to step outside your house. |
Or there is another explanation..
He was afraid of the questions which he has no answers..
The famous stars actors have a right to be interviewed or not. because their career is related to them only. But as to Armstrong has no choice .. because that big event is related to the whole world, and people want to know the details about the event, and they have a right to know, haven't they?
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We are always looking for a miracle but the things we are used to seeing are more miraculous than those we are looking for. |
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Jamilion
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| #44 (permalink) Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:58 am The Miracle of landing on the moon! |
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And here you can see The flag moving clearly.
_________________
We are always looking for a miracle but the things we are used to seeing are more miraculous than those we are looking for. |
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Jamilion
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| #45 (permalink) Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:16 pm The Miracle of landing on the moon! |
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Jamillion,
Did you actually listen to that video? It's talking about why the flag appears to be moving. It actually explains WHY the flag moves....
Thanks for posting that video. It's a great explanation that totally refutes your own argument.
Pay special attention to the last line. It summarizes your theory perfectly.
"The only breeze I know of is blowing through the heads of those unwilling to do a little bit of research and except the known laws of physics."
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